Author Topic: Cutting Engines Mid Flight  (Read 4431 times)

Offline AAJagerX

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 07:03:32 PM »
titanic3,

You seem to be fishing for something here.  Just come out and say what you want.

I believe he's referring to the practice of cutting off an engine mid-dogfight using the sudden increase in drag to force an overshoot.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2011, 07:22:51 PM »
I believe he's referring to the practice of cutting off an engine mid-dogfight using the sudden increase in drag to force an overshoot.
Haven't tests in AH shown that reducing throttle to minimum has the same exact effect?
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Offline titanic3

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2011, 07:41:02 PM »
Haven't tests in AH shown that reducing throttle to minimum has the same exact effect?

So why are people doing this and not that? I'm not forcing a certain type of gameplay on players, but cutting engines mid flight was never done in WW2 on purpose during a dogfight, why should it be allowed to be done here?

Not so much of an unbalanced issue where cutting engines is better, it's not, I know that. But it subtracts from a sense of realism.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2011, 07:56:42 PM »
If I am correct, then the people who are doing it are doing so because they have falsely been lead to believe that it causes more drag.

One would have to do tests to see if that is the case.  Also note that single engined and multi-engined fighters may have different results.
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Offline shdo

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2011, 08:03:41 PM »
It was a practice, in the P38 at least, to use asymmetric throttle to tighten turns, effect changes in aerobatics during combat.  For all it's good things multi-engine controls in AH2 leave a lot to be desired IF you don't want all the engines performing with the same settings.

Yes I know you can select the separate engines and monkey with them  but what is needed are separate controls for all the engines at the same time.  In a multi-engine AC I can push both throttles forward at the same time and I can retard/advance one separately, same with prop and mixture settings.  I know why it's like it is but it's not optimal and shutting down 1 engine is faster than trying to monkey with power/rpm settings as currently implemented.

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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2011, 08:05:17 PM »
I used to do it all the time but it wasn't anything sneaky.  I rigged my X52 so that pushing past the forward throttle detent would active WEP and bringing the throttle back through the idle detent would shut down the engine.  Push the throttle forward of the idle detent and the engine started.  During fights the WEP worked great but when I chopped my throttle (such as to control closure) I'd often pull back too hard and shut the motor down.  Didn't really make any noticable difference in deceleration but it's realistic as that's the way most jet aircraft throttles work.  I had to change the X52 back to normal operation after I wore out (broke) the throttle detents.

I had a friend accidently shut down a T38 after landing at Pax River when he pulled the throttles back too hard.  The 38 has no APU so he couldn't restart the engines and he had to get towed back to the line by a tractor.  His callsign is now "Whisper".
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 08:09:31 PM by Mace2004 »
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2011, 08:30:52 PM »
I believe he's referring to the practice of cutting off an engine mid-dogfight using the sudden increase in drag to force an overshoot.

Haven't tests in AH shown that reducing throttle to minimum has the same exact effect?

Test have shown that reducing the throttle is far more effective than shutting off your engines.  It's been an urban AH myth for over a decade about turning off your engines to 1) slow your plane really fast to force and overshoot and 2) slow you down faster than the other guy so you can out turn him.  Like using elevator trim to turn better, it's nothing but in the mind of the beholder.

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Offline Pigslilspaz

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2011, 08:48:45 PM »
So why are people doing this and not that?

I do it because it does the same thing as slamming the throttle down, but how my controls are set up (Hand on stick and keyboard) I can't really control the throttle lever on my stick (right below the stick) in a dog fight, and it is much easier to press the engine key. If I had a hotas set up, I'd kill throttle rather than engine, because I like to hear my engine lol.

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Offline Puma44

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2011, 02:35:03 AM »
I think you adopt a worst-case scenario. I've read many times of both combat and civilian engine restarts in midair. It's as common as starting the engine in the first place. If you have no problems (i.e. combat damage) and willingly shut it off, there's no reason it won't restart again, if it was flight worthy when you took off.

If it's at the point it won't start up, you probably never would have got airborn to begin with, no?



P.S. Skorp, I don't think the thud had a 600mi range on full gas, let alone glide!

You are absolutely right, Krusty.  Restarts happen every day.  But, the pilot who doesn't plan and prepare for the worst case scenario isn't going to be around for long. Aviation out in the real world is very unforgiving.  An old saying states: " There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but, there are no old, bold pilots".  Temp fate in aviation one too many times and and you are going to pay dearly for it.  Intentionally shutting down an engine in an air combat scenario will put you right at the front of the line.  

The point being that it is illogical to intentionally shut down an engine  in a combat scenario (real world).  Yeah, obviously the engine(s) started up fine on the ground to get the pilot where he is going, to this point.  Shutting down in combat is asking for that random point in time where the "where did that come from" mechanical failure, vapor lock, etc.  that has never happened before just happened and the steely eyed fighter pilot is now sitting in a large refrigerator with wings.    There is NOT a valid or logical reason to shut an engine down in a combat situation.  Speed is life and speed comes from a well maintained and operated engine(s).  If one needs to reduce speed, slow down, force an overshoot, etc. there are other time tested options that work effectively, i.e. BFM, speed brakes, engine(s) to idle etc.  It comes down to pilot skill or lack thereof. Shutting down an engine to achieve victory doesn't demonstrate a shred of pilot skill.  
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 03:16:14 AM by Puma44 »



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Offline Tyrannis

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2011, 02:46:12 AM »
Yes, it is realistic. Happened many times in the war... a pilot forgot to switch tanks and the engine dies. He switches tanks, turns it back on. One P-38 pilot was the first recorded to score a kill with engines off because this happened while he was just about to fire. He calmly coasted in for the shot then started up afterwards.

Even Hitech himself flies, and has mentioned on the forums how he's had his sputter out on him before, switched tanks and started up again.
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 02:48:31 AM by Tyrannis »

Offline Puma44

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2011, 03:12:56 AM »
I assume all could agree that there is a vast difference between intentionally shutting down an engine in combat vs. running a fuel tank dry during the battle and fog of war, resolving the fuel supply problem, restarting, and continuing to wage war against the enemy.  :salute



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Offline Karnak

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2011, 04:45:33 AM »
I assume all could agree that there is a vast difference between intentionally shutting down an engine in combat vs. running a fuel tank dry during the battle and fog of war, resolving the fuel supply problem, restarting, and continuing to wage war against the enemy.  :salute

It is much ado about nothing in AH.  It is less effective than just throttling back, so let them do it and kill them.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 11:00:04 AM »
It is much ado about nothing in AH.  It is less effective than just throttling back, so let them do it and kill them.

A perfect lead in to my next point.  For those who feel intentionally shutting down an engine is an effective tactical move in AH, please continue.  That short time period that you are intentionally distracting yourself on the keyboard, etc is an opportunity for you to lose sight of the other guy and/or for him to maneuver for an advantage.   :aok



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Offline titanic3

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 12:21:57 PM »
Still can't help but feel as though realism goes out the window when people do it. No big issue, just...awkward.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline ToeTag

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Re: Cutting Engines Mid Flight
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2011, 12:37:07 PM »
The only time I shut down my engines is to get an ear on incoming GV's.
They call it "common sense", then why is it so uncommon?