Play quality

[68ZooM]

Each persona feeds off each other, it's like the food chain. you take away the fighting to capture a Base then your removing part of the chain, causing the game play to change and evolve into something else. and IMO it has changed the Game. The way a majority of the Players take a base now is with shear numbers,find the base with the least resistance, overwhelm them capture the base and move onto another low resistance target. Reason why i guess is because they know if any kind of defense was ready for them they wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making it to target.

Game play a few years ago you would see 5 to 7 smaller fighters going on all over the Map, not the 1 or 2 Horde verses Horde fights we have now. honestly if i had 30 or more guys wanting to capture a base i would be sending them to 3 or 4 bases at once not just to one base.  But thats just me i like to play the game and dying is no big deal to me, i die grab another plane there free.

[Rich52]

Trust me, it's the SAME. Your perception has changed, you notice things you never noticed before

Actually I havnt even written what, or if, anything has changed. But lets say this much. Maybe in order to notice change you have to leave for a year or more in the first place. All change is gradual and the steady player will probably not even notice it cause it doesnt all happen at once.

OK whats changed ? Whats gotten better? And worse?

I think the game itself has gotten better. No there have been no major changes in mechanics but the hangar is more full and many of the old rides have been redone.

As far as gameplay goes I think there is more hoarding and less quality 1 on 1s. I think the higher eny rides are used less. I think the overall population skill level has gone down. I see an awful lot of old names gone. Old squads gone or with far fewer members. Im surprised at the condition of Bish nation. Im surprised WW1 hasnt been a bigger hit. Even tho I said at the beginning it was a mistake the arena itself is to good to NOT be flown more. I just knew at the time that players Log to fly LAs, Nikis, 51s, 190s, 38s, and K4s. I didnt think the base would support a WW1 arena despite all the guys crowing for it.

The older crowd has always been the heart of AH. Maybe some have moved on, maybe they just dont have the time, or for health reasons cant play as much. I can remember when we had 30+ guys joining in missions with every planeset in the game used at various times. Now? That just doesnt happen.

I honestly dont know if I'll be staying after BF3 comes out. The game has nothing to do with it, this is still a fine game. But Im older now and life only gives me an hour or two a day to play a game and Im not sure its going to be AH I spend it in.

But even if I Leave I hope the game grows and gets stronger. I dont want to see the genre die. And Hitech kept his word. He made a great game that actually works without 1/10th the problems of other games/sims. Its easy to learn and you start having fun the first time you log in. And he has kept improving it. Compare that to whats happened with the IL2 community with the Cliffs of Dover disaster.

This was the first computer game I ever l played. I learned about it from a puter techie I had called for a computer problem. I remember the thrill of flying my bombers those first months and I wish I could feel that again. So maybe the only thing thats changed is the player themself. Anyway thanks for a mostly respectful thread.  

[Wiley]

Falcon, let's take a look at these suggestions.  It cuts to the heart of what we're discussing.

Strategy should include blowing up bridges thereby stopping gv attacks or making them take a longer route.  

...so they'll take longer to get there, likely get more strung out, thus making them easier to defeat.

Should include bombing factories and supply lines, trains and trucks, weakening enemy and forcing them to use less optimal resources (planes / gvs) until repaired.  

...so they will be less able to fight back.

Sinking merchant ships weakening the resolve of citizens in towns to fight and make towns easier to take.

...so they will have less opportunity to fight back.

Zone strat with gv spawns might add more fun as well. Especially if planes could blow up and block routes within them.  

I wasn't here for it, but ye olde forums tell me zone strats were tried once upon a time and failed in spectacular fashion.  Why would that be different now?

Except for the zone strats, are you sensing the theme?  People want the ability to make the enemy less able to defend themselves so they'll have an easier time rolling their bases.

Seriously, of you guys that are championing strats having an effect on gameplay, how many of you would think it was fun if you logged in and through no fault of your own, your side was outnumbered, could only take 25% fuel, and the best dogfighting plane you could up was the I16?  Would you really stick it out?  The vast majority of people in the game wouldn't, and that's why strats don't have those kinds of effects on the other side.

Wiley.

[FALCONWING]

....and I believe that is the differance between a simmer and a gamer.

A simmer wants to play the hero of his/her dreams. To do this they must become good at what they are doing. You can't win dogfights, or dive bomb, or level bomb, or capture bases with out practice to increase YOUR skill, not your "skill points" as in other games. Simmers seek out instruction and learn to get better at "how" they play.

A gamer on the other hand looks for the quickest easiest way to get to the end game, and for most its a base capture. Fighting doesn't even factor in any more, as a matter of fact it's a hindrance to there play. It slows down the number of captures per hour (thank god that isn't a stat kept and displayed by HTC!)

Confusing the simplicity of the game controls with skill in the game is another mistake. Sure its easy to learn what button does what, and gamers learn so many more, but I don't care how many button combinations they know, it is not going to shoot down my plane. How many button presses does it take to dive bomb with a P38? Not many but you still see 3 out of 4 crash while doing it.

Todays players are not interested in pretending to be WWII pilots and tankers. They are only here to capture the next base. Running in with a horde against minimal defense and rolling base after base is boring, that is why they are looking for new maps....which they will just run over as fast as they can anyway, new vehicles (which they won't use unless it can take out a TigerII in one shot), and new planes 9which they won't use unless they have bigger, or more cannons). They have done away with strategy, training, and anything that has to do with "skill" in playing the game, while the rest of us still look for a good fight.

My answer is that there should be room for both without their "idea of fun" being disrupted or division in the community as an ultimate result.  I would take slight exception with this concept that a "hardcore simmer" > gamer.  In any game the "gamer" is a simmer as well...just not one who takes it to the next level.  For example, the kid who plays Call of Duty is purposefully choosing a ww2 era environment to play in versus say Assassins Creed or Star Wars etc.

I play an mmo right now for multiple reasons....obviously as someone who stayed with AW ---> AH2 (what 15 years?) as my major online game it wasn't because I wasn't into ww2 era aerial combat...so you can't logically lump me into "he is just a gamer" mode.  Yes I prefered goal oriented activity and took bases and organized a squadron during my time.  And i didn't leave AH2 because i hated it...i just moved on.

Now why do i play AION....because in the 80's i was a Dungeon's And Dragon's fan...I loved Tolkien/LoTR and the first computer video game i remember playing was Ultima on the Apple 2c....I AM a simmer as are most of the people choosing this genre of mmo over others (eve on line etc).  Now there are folks who are even more hard core simmers...they are called role players...in their legions they speak and act in Old English tongue and speech patterns.  They know all the tiniest details about armor and knights and castles etc and can bore you to death with it.....heck i just like killing other people (player vs Player PvP) with my traps and arrows.  But even though i find their dedication to the genre to be hilarious and unnecessary, I have never seen conflict between the different level of commitment to the genre.  

And obviously if I am killing other peeps then it is because we have different factions (i.e. az/bz/cz) and when there are imbalances there is quick and immediate intervention by the staff to offer real incentives to balance and keep the playing field level.  There are weekly events/tournaments or other competitions that encourage the factions to fight...

I can't explain to yuo what you have not experienced...i had not known that things could be so interactive...i don't know how to not make you defensive of what you have unless you have experienced it yourself.  I want AH@ to thrive ...to be double in size...to not have the same threads one year later when i look back and i'm naive enough to think it could happen.  

[FALCONWING]

P.S.  I ain't your bro.

No you are obviously a rude little forum troll...

Thanks for wasting 2 minutes of my life.

you are dismissed
 

[FALCONWING]

hey love!

you know we are still fb friends right? i see your updates from time to time when i log in...i dont much though...

and no i'm sorry if you thought furballers should not do anything...EVERYONE should do as they like without acting elitist over what others do...thats all

AND if you want things to get better you have to invest the time and effort to change it

I guess thats the gist of it

see ya gurl,
falc

[FALCONWING]

Long time dan,

good to see ya as always.

My quick answer is the one that always eludes you....because it is fun.  We like to accuse other folks of "choosing the path of least resistance" but lets be honest...this isn't cleaning up your room...this is doing what is fun...

I get that its not your idea of fun...but if you scroll up and understand my post about why i play aion etc...you will understand that in their eyes...you are the roleplaying dude...wanting this to be as close to ww2 flight combat as possible and maybe that just isn't their idea of fun or immersion in this game...

peace,
falc

[betty]

I know sillyhead! Now back to Top Gun on AMC

hey love!

you know we are still fb friends right? i see your updates from time to time when i log in...i dont much though...

and no i'm sorry if you thought furballers should not do anything...EVERYONE should do as they like without acting elitist over what others do...thats all

AND if you want things to get better you have to invest the time and effort to change it

I guess thats the gist of it

see ya gurl,
falc

[SunBat]

No you are obviously a rude little forum troll...

Thanks for wasting 2 minutes of my life.

you are dismissed
 

Hit a little too close to home, eh? 

[FALCONWING]

Hit a little too close to home, eh? 

erm using your paranoid "life philosophy", I am now a rude forum troll because i have properly accused you of being one.

Shhh and let the grownups talk...back to the kids table...

Once again you are dismissed

[icepac]

What I see in aces high is that nobody is learning from thier own experiences in game.

They commit the exact same errors over and over.

Some guys have been committing the same errors for a decade or more and they still haven't learned.

Basic tactics like flanking leaves most here completely befuddled and a feint or diversion somehow causes your teammates to be fooled rather than the enemy even after you announced the diversion a few times on country channel.

The reason is that everybody is out for self-enrichment at the expense of everything else (much like the bankers and financiers).......then they bemoan the situation that they caused themselves.

This is why you see 7 friendly fighters tasked to provide cover for c47s or LTV troop carriers suddenly decide that they all need to chase one b26 while ignoring the single enemy c202 takes out 2x c47 and 3x ltv2.

[The Fugitive]

Fuji, while I agree with you for the most part, it is somewhat unreasonable to expect others to do what we ourselves are unwilling to do.  You complain that players these days don't want to do anything but horde.  I would suggest that in the case of newer players, they have never been shown and/or taught how effective (and fun) the highly organized (non horde) missions you describe can be.

Who is going to teach/show them?  Are you willing to put in the effort?  I don't think I am.  

So, why should we expect anything more then what we are already getting in game?

Maybe there needs to be a cadre of long term players who volunteer to step up and put together missions for a few months.  And not just for one country, but for all three.  If there were such Veteran Mission Planners putting together base captures, GV raids, HQ bomber raids, fighter sweeps, and other such things consistently for a few months on all sides, you might start to see a change in the way newer players approach the game.  You can't really expect newer players to adopt a play style that they have never seen or experienced, now can you?

But who is going to step up and do the heavy lifting required?  Anyone?

Probably not.  It's simply much easier to say that we've done our time.  Or that the current xboxers will never follow.  Or whatever excuse we have so we can continue to blame everyone else instead of ourselves.

This isn't an attack on any particular person, just an attack on the idea that new players should play how we would like them to, but without anyone teaching it to them.

  

I think that is where it fell apart. I trained a number of people to run missions, use tactics and so on. I learned from my CO "Mule" in AW. The "training aspect of this game is almost gone. Was a time that squads taught the new player how to play, not so much any more. Like you said the new players only see how they do it now and run with it. Like I said before, half a dozen squads dedicated to defense and I think you'd see some changes.

My answer is that there should be room for both without their "idea of fun" being disrupted or division in the community as an ultimate result.  I would take slight exception with this concept that a "hardcore simmer" > gamer.  In any game the "gamer" is a simmer as well...just not one who takes it to the next level.  For example, the kid who plays Call of Duty is purposefully choosing a ww2 era environment to play in versus say Assassins Creed or Star Wars etc.

I play an mmo right now for multiple reasons....obviously as someone who stayed with AW ---> AH2 (what 15 years?) as my major online game it wasn't because I wasn't into ww2 era aerial combat...so you can't logically lump me into "he is just a gamer" mode.  Yes I prefered goal oriented activity and took bases and organized a squadron during my time.  And i didn't leave AH2 because i hated it...i just moved on.

Now why do i play AION....because in the 80's i was a Dungeon's And Dragon's fan...I loved Tolkien/LoTR and the first computer video game i remember playing was Ultima on the Apple 2c....I AM a simmer as are most of the people choosing this genre of mmo over others (eve on line etc).  Now there are folks who are even more hard core simmers...they are called role players...in their legions they speak and act in Old English tongue and speech patterns.  They know all the tiniest details about armor and knights and castles etc and can bore you to death with it.....heck i just like killing other people (player vs Player PvP) with my traps and arrows.  But even though i find their dedication to the genre to be hilarious and unnecessary, I have never seen conflict between the different level of commitment to the genre. 

And obviously if I am killing other peeps then it is because we have different factions (i.e. az/bz/cz) and when there are imbalances there is quick and immediate intervention by the staff to offer real incentives to balance and keep the playing field level.  There are weekly events/tournaments or other competitions that encourage the factions to fight...

I can't explain to yuo what you have not experienced...i had not known that things could be so interactive...i don't know how to not make you defensive of what you have unless you have experienced it yourself.  I want AH@ to thrive ...to be double in size...to not have the same threads one year later when i look back and i'm naive enough to think it could happen. 

I don't see how there could be both. Our main thing is combat, and most players today look to avoid any kind of combat. Assasins Creed is totally different than CoD, as well as WoW. Cod was designed and set in WWII because the market was flooded with shoot'em ups that had mega guns and lazers. So they tried something new. In CoD everyone spawns in and runs for either a sniper spot, or a spot to get other running toward one of the flags. You gauge yourself by hoping you killed more before they captured the flag than you died!

Assasins is more about the maneuvers and jumps than anything else, and achieving a goal to end a stage. And WoW, well we have all seen the "Leroy Jenkins" video. Sure there are some teams that work well together healers healing the stronger attacking teammates as they gang bang the big boss of the area.

The only thing they have in common is they have a set goal, the journey is total unimportant. To those of us who like to fight, the journey is the only thing. Yes we like to take bases too, but we would like to use a co-ordinated attack timing the bomb drop with the fighter suppression and clearing the air space just as the goon rounds the nearby mountain. Todays player just throw everything they have at a base and then move on to the next one. And much like you Falc, they will get bored and move on.

[Guppy35]

Long time dan,

good to see ya as always.

My quick answer is the one that always eludes you....because it is fun.  We like to accuse other folks of "choosing the path of least resistance" but lets be honest...this isn't cleaning up your room...this is doing what is fun...

I get that its not your idea of fun...but if you scroll up and understand my post about why i play aion etc...you will understand that in their eyes...you are the roleplaying dude...wanting this to be as close to ww2 flight combat as possible and maybe that just isn't their idea of fun or immersion in this game...

peace,
falc

Definitely not a role playing guy.  I'd be flying to live, taking 100 fuel an DTs and never entering a fight I couldn't win  

I just haven't ever gotten over the fact that I'm able to 'fly' against other people and don't get why anyone would play online and avoid those same people

Glad you are enjoying the new game 

[kilo2]

Definitely not a role playing guy.  I'd be flying to live, taking 100 fuel an DTs and never entering a fight I couldn't win  

I just haven't ever gotten over the fact that I'm able to 'fly' against other people and don't get why anyone would play online and avoid those same people

Glad you are enjoying the new game  

You're thinking in terms of the enemy only, they fly with people just on their team. What you would do and what other people would do is different and if that is how they want to play then so be it.

[Guppy35]

You're thinking in terms of the enemy only, they fly with people just on their team. What you would do and what other people would do is different and if that is how they want to play then so be it.

But Kilo I have no enemy in the game.  Just other folks flying cartoon airplanes.  When I first got a computer and was able to play flight sims, there were all kinds of missions to fly.  Whether it be SWOTL, AoE, AoP or European Airwar, you could get really caught up in flying your 'role' in the missions.  And the dogfights could be fun.  But after a while you got to know what the AI was going to do, so you could 'win' every time.

Airwarrior appears and the online flying starts and it's the unpredictability of those 'fighting' you that became the addiction.  You didn't know what the next move is going to be.  The win is the fun from that, not finishing the mission or the game.

I'm not telling anyone how to play.  It's their dime.  The discussion was play quality.