Author Topic: a sad, sad day  (Read 3616 times)

Offline dedalos

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2011, 09:44:52 AM »
Well duh, some might have bailed out to save themselves.  Of course it sounds like he might have been blacked out when he crashed.

Bail out from a Cessna?  Right lol.  Just a couple of weeks ago WGN Chicago was praising a pilot for crash landing his Cessna into the corn fields instead of some houses that you could barely see in the horizon.  Not saying that some don't risk their lives to avoid hitting people.  But for most of them, the best chances for survival are when avoiding buildings and going for an empty field.  Just saying that the hero title is given a little too easily now days.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Stoney

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2011, 09:51:05 AM »
Bail out from a Cessna?  Right lol.  Just a couple of weeks ago WGN Chicago was praising a pilot for crash landing his Cessna into the corn fields instead of some houses that you could barely see in the horizon.  Not saying that some don't risk their lives to avoid hitting people.  But for most of them, the best chances for survival are when avoiding buildings and going for an empty field.  Just saying that the hero title is given a little too easily now days.

Well, given that the media doesn't know crap about aviation, its just their ignorance and haste to "make a story" that causes it.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2011, 11:43:16 AM »
Well, given that the media doesn't know crap about aviation, its just their ignorance and haste to "make a story" that causes it.

 and this in turn prejudices uninformed people against such things.
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Offline crockett

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2011, 03:51:41 PM »
Of course he is going to be under closer scrutiny, and he was (as colmbo pointed out the medical is stricter for older folks) and he passed said scrutiny.   Unless you're going to claim that the MD who did his last medical faked it, and if that's true then that doctor is done.   I'm sure the NTSB will look into that as well.

Like I said, unless the FAA changes it's rules, you cannot ground a private pilot based only on their age.

Others lives are at risk anytime anybody goes flying, or driving for that matter, should we not allow 74 yr olds to drive either, heck they might plow into an elementary school playground.   Maybe they should raise the minimum pilot age too, I know lots of 17yr olds I don't think are mature enough to handle an airplane.  I could think of excuses for why almost anybody of any age could be a dangerous flyer, young people are immature and lack experience, middle age people are having a mid-life crisis and are reckless, old people aren't as strong and forgetful... ...

As has been pointed out several times, he was subjected to 9+Gs (we know that is what is needed to drop the tailwheel) which in 1998, from the same failure, also knocked out a pilot of 41 yrs old, does that mean 41 is too old to compete as well?

Life involves risk, that's just the way it is.  A life without risk would be awfully boring.  Maybe you'll be content to just sit in your rocker yelling at kids on your grass in your twilight years, I would rather still be active though, and almost all activities involve some level of risk.


I used to race cars as a hobby, so I understand the stress the human body can be put under. It's a fun and expensive thing to do but the first thing that should always be on any driver's or pilot's mind is are they a risk to others. I don't care what anyone says, but your reactions are not the same as you get older nor can your body take the same kind of abuse.

Even though it's fun as hell and exciting, I really don't think I'll be climbing into a race car at age 74 even if I feel capable of doing so. Simply because I know that other peoples lives are at risk and I wouldn't want cause others harm by not being up to par physically or even mentally.

I simply think at that age he shouldn't of been competing in this kind of event, regardless if it had anything to do with the crash or not. It's one thing to hop in a car or airplane and go for a drive or a flight (still risky enough for some 70+ers) but it's a hell of a lot more stress on the body to compete in a racing event.

Also I'd hope there was more to competing in an event than just having a FAA pilot's license. I know with my racing we had to pass on track drivers tests and well as physical. To be honest though IMO the basic physical that we had to take could have easily been passed by anyone in decent shape. IMO it's really wasn't enough of a test it was just a Doc saying sure you probably arent gonna drop dead tomorrow and you can see straight.

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Offline B4Buster

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2011, 03:51:56 PM »
Mechanical failures don't discriminate. The pilot could have been 16 - 90. At that altitude and speed, it doesn't matter.
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Offline Stoney

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2011, 01:30:53 AM »
I simply think at that age he shouldn't of been competing in this kind of event, regardless if it had anything to do with the crash or not. It's one thing to hop in a car or airplane and go for a drive or a flight (still risky enough for some 70+ers) but it's a hell of a lot more stress on the body to compete in a racing event.

Also I'd hope there was more to competing in an event than just having a FAA pilot's license. I know with my racing we had to pass on track drivers tests and well as physical. To be honest though IMO the basic physical that we had to take could have easily been passed by anyone in decent shape. IMO it's really wasn't enough of a test it was just a Doc saying sure you probably arent gonna drop dead tomorrow and you can see straight.



So, if he has a 1st class medical, and is otherwise medically qualified to pilot a high performance aircraft, he shouldn't be in the race?  What's the magic age?  45?  50?  Believe you me, they've been running the races for a very long time and they are fully aware of who's dangerous and who's not.  There is no way RARA would have let him fly in the race had they had the slightest concern about his fitness as a race pilot.

Second, do some research on RARA (Reno Air Racing Association) and look at all the qualifications a pilot has to complete in order to fly there.  This is not some fly-by-night lash-up just putting planes in the air.  There are very stringent pilot training and qualifications required for competition.  They are very concerned about safety--of the pilots and the spectators.  The seating and course is designed to prevent these types of accidents.  Had the mechanical failure not occurred when it did, and the freakishly random circumstances of the planes location when the event occurred, the only casualty would have been the pilot.

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Offline icepac

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2011, 02:55:10 AM »
The last first class medical I had featured a stress test and a ekg machine.

Offline CAP1

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2011, 07:50:22 AM »
I used to race cars as a hobby, so I understand the stress the human body can be put under. It's a fun and expensive thing to do but the first thing that should always be on any driver's or pilot's mind is are they a risk to others. I don't care what anyone says, but your reactions are not the same as you get older nor can your body take the same kind of abuse.

Even though it's fun as hell and exciting, I really don't think I'll be climbing into a race car at age 74 even if I feel capable of doing so. Simply because I know that other peoples lives are at risk and I wouldn't want cause others harm by not being up to par physically or even mentally.

I simply think at that age he shouldn't of been competing in this kind of event, regardless if it had anything to do with the crash or not. It's one thing to hop in a car or airplane and go for a drive or a flight (still risky enough for some 70+ers) but it's a hell of a lot more stress on the body to compete in a racing event.

Also I'd hope there was more to competing in an event than just having a FAA pilot's license. I know with my racing we had to pass on track drivers tests and well as physical. To be honest though IMO the basic physical that we had to take could have easily been passed by anyone in decent shape. IMO it's really wasn't enough of a test it was just a Doc saying sure you probably arent gonna drop dead tomorrow and you can see straight.



 better a 74 year old, with 35 years of experience, than a 25 year old with 0 years of experience, eh/? age wasn't a factor.
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Offline dedalos

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2011, 08:49:35 AM »
better a 74 year old, with 35 years of experience, than a 25 year old with 0 years of experience, eh/? age wasn't a factor.

We like to think so, as we get older but we don;t have the reflexes of a 20 year old nor can our body take the punishment a 20 year old can.  I don't know what happened but if the problem was that he blacked out after the malfunction, maybe a 25 year old wouldn't have.  It is all speculation anyway but some 74 year olds should not even be driving, no matter how many years experience they have.  Not saying that applies to him.  Just saying that experience does not make up for everything. 

In either case, millions of people are dieing every day.  This is some how sadder because it involved some equipment?  Nice  :aok
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2011, 09:43:56 AM »
We like to think so, as we get older but we don;t have the reflexes of a 20 year old nor can our body take the punishment a 20 year old can.  I don't know what happened but if the problem was that he blacked out after the malfunction, maybe a 25 year old wouldn't have.  It is all speculation anyway but some 74 year olds should not even be driving, no matter how many years experience they have.  Not saying that applies to him.  Just saying that experience does not make up for everything. 

In either case, millions of people are dieing every day.  This is some how sadder because it involved some equipment?  Nice  :aok

You must be talking about a 20 year old that is in really good shape.

There are a lot of older folks who can smoke most younger folks.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2011, 10:08:43 AM »
You must be talking about a 20 year old that is in really good shape.

There are a lot of older folks who can smoke most younger folks.

 that was/is my point, although i'm trying not to be argumentative in this. just using a rather simple example, i know my 49 year old bellybutton can smoke about 95% of the 20 year olds out there on the tree. this is fact, as i've done it many many times at the track.

 so much for slower reflexes.
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Offline Yeager

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2011, 10:12:21 AM »
that was/is my point, although i'm trying not to be argumentative in this. just using a rather simple example, i know my 49 year old bellybutton can smoke about 95% of the 20 year olds out there on the tree. this is fact, as i've done it many many times at the track.

 so much for slower reflexes.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2011, 10:25:47 AM »
Being young in the US today means a one in three chance of being obese.  Computer games and the internet they say.......  My advice to old people, stay off the internet and get rid of those couch potato Xbox thingys.

 people like me will never be fat. ever. the only time i've gained weight since high school, was when i started lifting weights. i went from 140(yea, i was only 140 when i graduated) to 175. when i stopped lifting, i dropped to around 160 or so. that was 20-some years ago. i'm still 163.

 so that all being said, what does your statement have to do with anything in this thread?
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2011, 10:48:46 AM »
Bahh I never got on the computer. :D
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Offline ink

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Re: a sad, sad day
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2011, 11:20:34 AM »
We like to think so, as we get older but we don;t have the reflexes of a 20 year old nor can our body take the punishment a 20 year old can.  I don't know what happened but if the problem was that he blacked out after the malfunction, maybe a 25 year old wouldn't have.  It is all speculation anyway but some 74 year olds should not even be driving, no matter how many years experience they have.  Not saying that applies to him.  Just saying that experience does not make up for everything. 

In either case, millions of people are dieing every day.  This is some how sadder because it involved some equipment?  Nice  :aok

I dont know bro I am 42......my reflexes are faster now then they ever been, and when I was a kid they were blistering, I know its a big difference between 42 and 75, but if the guy has been doing this for many years I dont see it as an issue, I really don't think age had anything to do with this.