Author Topic: Clarification for what to be added to the game  (Read 2658 times)

Offline Butcher

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Clarification for what to be added to the game
« on: September 20, 2011, 01:40:40 PM »
To many topics deal with Aircraft/vehicles that have seen no combat or wern't in production, can anyone from HTC give a full clarification on this?

Basically I want to know what are the rules in regards to possibly adding something to the game?
JG 52

Offline waystin2

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 04:27:43 PM »
I'll second the request.  :aok
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 07:03:36 PM »
A definition of what counts as combat, if combat is a criteria at all, would be nice as well.

Point in case, Meteors dealt with V1s, did some ground attack and, I am told, had a scoreless furball with some Fw190s.

I can see people arguing on both sides of whether or not that is combat.
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Offline skorpion

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 07:09:17 PM »
hell. just shooting some ground targets means combat. if its enemy, and your attacking them then its considered combat.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 07:09:59 PM »
A definition of what counts as combat, if combat is a criteria at all, would be nice as well.

Point in case, Meteors dealt with V1s, did some ground attack and, I am told, had a scoreless furball with some Fw190s.

I can see people arguing on both sides of whether or not that is combat.

BEGIN QUOTE:

The Meteor III is superior to the Tempest V in almost all departments. If it were not for the heaviness of its ailerons and the consequent poor maneuverability in the rolling plane, and the adverse effect of snaking on it as a gun platform, it would be a comparable all-round fighter with greatly increased performance.

END QUOTE

A few Meteor IIIs flew to the Continent in January 1945 and operated out of the Low Countries with the 2nd Tactical Air Force until the end of the war in early May 1945. They performed ground strafing attacks, but never engaged in air combat.

Nope never engaged in Air combat during the European Theater, only ground attacks.

Here's the reason why:

With the arrival of the Meteor F Mk.III in December 1944 the RAF finally decided that the Meteor was ready for combat over Europe. On 20 January 1945 a flight of four Meteors moved to Melsbrook in Belgium becoming the first Allied jet squadron to operate from the continent. Their initial purpose was to provide air defence for the airfield, but it was also hoped that their presence might provoke the Germans into sending Me 262s against them. At this point the Meteor pilots were still forbidden to fly over German occupied territory, or to go east of Eindhoven, to prevent a downed aircraft being captured by the Germans or the Soviets.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 07:13:16 PM by Butcher »
JG 52

Offline Karnak

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 07:31:34 PM »
See, only two posts after mine and you have one person saying it saw combat and another saying it did not.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 08:18:17 PM »
See, only two posts after mine and you have one person saying it saw combat and another saying it did not.

Only 4 planes landed in Europe, I do believe HTC said "Squadron Strength".
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 08:43:52 PM »
Only 4 planes landed in Europe, I do believe HTC said "Squadron Strength".
It served in squadron strength in the UK.

The only thing that the validity of the Meteor Mk III hinges on is the definition of "combat".
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Offline wil3ur

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 08:47:20 PM »
There's probably a few planes from BoB, China/Burma/India and North Africa that never saw squadron strength in Continental Europe...
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Offline Butcher

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 02:20:43 AM »
It served in squadron strength in the UK.

The only thing that the validity of the Meteor Mk III hinges on is the definition of "combat".

Quote
Your last comment was "There was a squad v squad fight of Meteor Mk IIIs against Fw190s, but a squad of Spitfires showed up and chased off the Meteors before any Fw190 or Meteor was downed.

Air to air combat."

Can you please verify this comment with sources, I am interested to know since you are an expert on the Meteor. I'd like to know the names of the pilots who were engaged, and which Luftwaffe units.

Again please clarify this with sources ->

Quote
A definition of what counts as combat, if combat is a criteria at all, would be nice as well.

Point in case, Meteors dealt with V1s, did some ground attack and, I am told, had a scoreless furball with some Fw190s.

I can see people arguing on both sides of whether or not that is combat.

Can you please clarify the sources that the meteor engaged a Luftwaffe aircraft. I show only 4 Meteor Mk III's were sent to Europe and none did anything more then Provoke the Germans to send Me-262's after them and fly CAP over an Airfield - none were allowed anywhere near the combat lines for fear the Germans/Russians would get ahold of the aircraft.

Please don't tell me you read it on wikipedia.
JG 52

Offline Karnak

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 03:21:06 AM »
I am not an expert on the Meteor, nor am I advocating it to be added to AH.  I am holding it up as a poster child of an aircraft that might or might not qualify depending on the definition of "combat".

As to the Meteor vs Fw190 claim, it was posted in this forum a long time ago by another poster whom I respect.  I no longer recall whom.

You will note that I backed off of the claim in this thread, reducing it to "and, I am told, had a scoreless furball with some Fw190s."


1) The Meteor Mk III was in series production.
2) The Meteor Mk III served in squadron strength.
3) Depending on if V1 interceptions and ground attack count as combat or not the Meteor Mk III may or may not have seen combat.

1) The F7F Tigercat was in series production.
2) The F7F Tigercat served in squadron strength.
3) The F7F Tigercat did not see combat.

1) The F8F Bearcat was in series production.
2) The F8F Bearcat served in squadron strength.
3) The F8F Bearcat did not see combat.

1) The P-51H Mustang was in series production.
2) The P-51H Mustang served in squadron strength.
3) The P-51H Mustang did not see combat.

See the difference?
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Offline Saxman

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 07:37:20 AM »
I am not an expert on the Meteor, nor am I advocating it to be added to AH.  I am holding it up as a poster child of an aircraft that might or might not qualify depending on the definition of "combat".

Heh. If you REALLY want to get the boards riled up on this subject all you gotta use is two words:

KING COBRA

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 11:12:20 AM »
I thought all that mattered was what the children wanted by vote???    :headscratch:
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 11:19:49 AM »
WOW.  Did this one get de-railed or what? :confused:
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Offline JUGgler

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Re: Clarification for what to be added to the game
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 11:42:06 AM »
Whirble Wind, served in squadron strength, served longer "IN COMBAT" than the chog and MJug combined  :aok

I believe it hade longer active WW2 service than the twit16 and tempest also

I don't think "squadron" size or "active" WW2 service is all that important to the requirements, if so then there are tons of vehicles that should have been here way before the likes of say the Chog  :aok  IMHO


I think HiTech adds what he wants to add, <-- that is the only requirement!



JUGgler
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 11:46:36 AM by JUGgler »
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