Author Topic: Suggestion for the AvA  (Read 2955 times)

Offline jimson

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2011, 11:02:09 AM »
OK here is the deal.

Each week, a staffer put's his setup in. They each have some freedom as to what they would like to run, within reason.

We do not have the same abilities as the MA does, auto win the war map resets etc.

Many folks have suggested that the arena needs to have some sort of point, some objective.

Otherwise all it is is a 2 sided limited planeset dueling arena.

I have said this dozens of times concerning the debate between strategic players vs dogfighters or basetakers vs furballers:

While the latter can occur within a game that has the former, the reverse is not true.

No one is saying that if all you want to do is furball, that you can't just fly around and shoot down planes.

That is fine, but my personal opinion is that there needs to be a place for all different styles of gameplay for the arena to be successful.

The objectives listed and the "orders" posted, (perhaps I should have used the word suggestions instead) are there for those who choose to play a strategic game.

There is no perfect setup. Some problems always come up. The downtimes for ords have been shortened, as that seemed to be a bone of contention, so now ords will come back up sooner.

The AvA is not the MA. We have 2 countries enabled and specific planesets and we cannot use the automatic tools that are present there.  We are a scenario type of arena but the AvA is also not the SEA, we are a 24/7 arena and HTC doesn't want us to compete with the SEA.

We are also not the DA with limited country specific planes.

If you think it's easy to thread this needle then you haven't been paying attention. We have never been able to please everyone and we never will.

We can develop some sort of written rules, but we are also limited there.

There has been mention in this thread about a "gentlemans" sportsmanship statement.

We once had such a description on the special events website, that said vultching, spawn camping etc were frowned upon in AvA.

Perhaps that is the one that is being referred to.

We were directed in no uncertain terms by HTC to remove it as they percieved it to be disparaging of the game and the MA.

I can assure you that Hitech takes a very dim view of anything that can be interpreted as derogatory to the MA or anything that sets up a we (AvA) vs they (MA) mentality.

Enforcing "gentlemens" rules is a no go. Encouragement by example is probably the best thing that can be done in this area.

However, harrassment and insulting others is a different thing entirely.

Two last points I will make, the AvA staff is not a "borg collective" we are individuals with different opinions. These are mine and I am responding because this is my setup.

Lastly, everyone wants a decent population in the AvA. No one wants to log into an empty arena.

So where do you think these people are going to come from?

Think about that before you ridicule the MA players.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 11:05:42 AM by jimson »

Offline Nathan60

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2011, 11:12:43 AM »
I am member of VMF-222, but I speak for only myself.

We saw the notice last week of the impending battle in the AVA, posted it on our boards, and discussed our participation.  The conversation was about, "this looks like fun", never did anone say, "hey lets go in there with our uberness and roll bases and win this war".  It did look like there was a general plan and we thought that too looked like fun.

On Friday we had about 8 of us logged into the AVA.  We flew as a squad.  We attacked bases, killed enemy aircraft, covered each other and attempted to land safely, rearm, and go to battle again, as a squad.  Frankly, we were in heaven.  The setup was brillant as we could choose whick F4U aircraft type we wanted from the multitude of carriers.  We got to fly our squads historical aircraft at will and engage with aircraft from the enemy of a proper type.  We were tasked with missions that were, or could have been historically accurate.  We were having a ball.  Normally, Friday nights, would have found us in the FSO but it was an off week.  As we chatted the general conversation was lauding the gameplay we had found and many expressed the desire to play here at least untill the scenario changed.

And then...............

The griefing started.  Ironically the opening statement was "Don't bring that main arena BS into here, you guys ............................. ........................ and I'm better than any of of you because you guys......................... ............................. .you guys wont fight me fair because you guys......................... ................(ad infinitum).

Wow.  Seriously took me by surprise.  Thank you to the many arena regulars that supported our gameplay and reminded this individual that we were following the scenario set up and others were having fun too.  Nothing would stop him.

Saturday evening.  We log in again, same thing.

Sunday, I played in the main, wishing I could have been having fun in the AVA.

Thank you gentelmen. <S>

Z

yeah  there are  a few that can get annoying,  I kinda got  upset about a 5 v 1  the other day(when  TdMetal and I upped  m-16's to defend the v base)  then I upped a A6m5b after we gotted bombed to  bolivian( :rolleyes:) in which I was ho'd a cpl times but I didnt know you were going after that base. I wouldn't have complained about the ho's if I knew about the lvt's and  the  invisable wall I thought  you were just  shacking thre base  a and furballing lol I didnt think you were trying to take it cuz I never saw lvt's  untill after we had been going at it  for like an hr, but back to my original post I think I know who you're talking about and thwe game is  much better if ya squealch him,  he always has something to say,complain about or  order you to do.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2011, 11:20:15 AM »
Thanks, Jimson.  That explains everything.

It's good to know there's a reason why you don't have the unwritten rules posted.  Though I don't agree with it, I can understand HTC's logic.

I just don't see it as creating an 'us versus them' mentality to say 'side based combat is frowned upon in this arena.'  It's a statement of fact, people will know what they're getting into from the get-go, and I would think it would lessen friction.  But, it's not my house, I just visit once in a while.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline Puma44

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2011, 12:11:28 PM »
If I may, Jimson, "Orders" are part of the scenario immersion and are intended to guide the game for the week's scenario.  Out in the real world, operations like these were/are developed by command planning staffs. If approved, the orders are prepared in a frag format and distributed to the combat units for execution.  Since we, in game, are paying to play, there's no obligation to "follow orders" as is required in the military.

Jimson's scenarios have a more immersive read to them and thus "orders".  So, we as paying customers can follow orders, or guidance (if that is more palatable) or not. 

As far as "Gentlemen's Rules" goes, it's not intended to be disparaging towards the MAs or SEAs.  The thing that attracted me to the AvA is the environment of civility and gentlemanly behavior that exists.  Frankly, I got fed up with the childish and inconsiderate behavior that was consistent elsewhere.  The vast majority of AvA players demonstrate a like minded way of playing the game and don't need to brow beat anyone else into their style of play. Those who have a burning need to be disruptive and disrespectful for their own purposes are in some sort of a bad place in life. This is displayed when they show up in a public forum and act as if there is no accountability.

So, Gentlemen's Rules tend to develop as a natural state of the environment and enable individuals to self police themselves.  When one strays of track a bit, another gentleman will remind with peer pressure and the issue is solved with common courtesy and respect vs abusive smack talk and insults. So, anything disparaging is reflected on the individual not one of the many available arenas.   :salute



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Offline coombz

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2011, 12:27:50 PM »
The griefing started.  Ironically the opening statement was "Don't bring that main arena BS into here, you guys ............................. ........................ and I'm better than any of of you because you guys......................... ............................. .you guys wont fight me fair because you guys......................... ................(ad infinitum).

Wow.  Seriously took me by surprise.  Thank you to the many arena regulars that supported our gameplay and reminded this individual that we were following the scenario set up and others were having fun too.  Nothing would stop him.

Saturday evening.  We log in again, same thing.

Sunday, I played in the main, wishing I could have been having fun in the AVA.

Thank you gentelmen. <S>

Z

as an interested observer, I can't help but wonder how/why this individual was able to force you out of the AvA when you had been having a fun time?

you should never let someone else's selfish narrow minded opinion dictate how you fly! fly for own enjoyment.

if you really liked flying in the AvA you shouldn't let yourself be forced out so easily  :salute
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I'll be seeing you face to face possibly next month.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2011, 12:33:06 PM »
as an interested observer, I can't help but wonder how/why this individual was able to force you out of the AvA when you had been having a fun time?

you should never let someone else's selfish narrow minded opinion dictate how you fly! fly for own enjoyment.

if you really liked flying in the AvA you shouldn't let yourself be forced out so easily  :salute


Well, being told by a fairly active regular (judging by his rank) upon entering an arena 'Your style of play isn't what this arena is about.' carries some weight.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline coombz

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »
'Your style of play isn't what this arena is about.'


that's such a popular refrain amongst the vocal 'elites' of Aces High that I would have thought everyone would be immune to it by now ;>  

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I'll be seeing you face to face possibly next month.

Offline grumpy37

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2011, 12:47:38 PM »
Dont let rank dictate anything.  Anyone could go in today play for an hour and capture the rank of #1 with ease.  I liked it when the rank was turned off, it really serves no purpose in this arena anyway.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2011, 12:58:07 PM »
Well, being told by a fairly active regular (judging by his rank) upon entering an arena 'Your style of play isn't what this arena is about.' carries some weight.

Wiley.

just tell the person, you'll play his way when he starts paying for your subscription. People like him i just ignore right off the bat, then hit .squelch and he's gone.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2011, 01:07:53 PM »
Ah.  Apologies.  I wasn't making myself clear.

It was no skin off my nose, I'm about as thick-skinned as they come.  My internal monologue went roughly similar to Coombz, grumpy, and Zoom's posts, except Zoom's came first.  The rank comment was only mentioned as something that was noticed.  The guys that generally get rank hang around a lot.

I was just pointing out that among the guys we were uncertain what the standards of play were and the loudest indication of anything was meou.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Puma44

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2011, 03:45:11 PM »
just tell the person, you'll play his way when he starts paying for your subscription. People like him i just ignore right off the bat, then hit .squelch and he's gone.

Good point!  ".squelch" certainly makes the game play more pleasant when someone is being offensive.  As a technique, it might be an effective response if everyone .squelched the one guy who happens to be the irritant.  Then the guy would effectively be standing in his own closet, harassing himself and having no affect on anyone else.  It's all about what you choose to listen to.



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Offline Melvin

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2011, 05:07:37 PM »
I am member of VMF-222, but I speak for only myself.

We saw the notice last week of the impending battle in the AVA, posted it on our boards, and discussed our participation.  The conversation was about, "this looks like fun", never did anone say, "hey lets go in there with our uberness and roll bases and win this war".  It did look like there was a general plan and we thought that too looked like fun.

On Friday we had about 8 of us logged into the AVA.  We flew as a squad.  We attacked bases, killed enemy aircraft, covered each other and attempted to land safely, rearm, and go to battle again, as a squad.  Frankly, we were in heaven.  The setup was brillant as we could choose whick F4U aircraft type we wanted from the multitude of carriers.  We got to fly our squads historical aircraft at will and engage with aircraft from the enemy of a proper type.  We were tasked with missions that were, or could have been historically accurate.  We were having a ball.  Normally, Friday nights, would have found us in the FSO but it was an off week.  As we chatted the general conversation was lauding the gameplay we had found and many expressed the desire to play here at least untill the scenario changed.

And then...............

The griefing started.  Ironically the opening statement was "Don't bring that main arena BS into here, you guys ............................. ........................ and I'm better than any of of you because you guys......................... ............................. .you guys wont fight me fair because you guys......................... ................(ad infinitum).

Wow.  Seriously took me by surprise.  Thank you to the many arena regulars that supported our gameplay and reminded this individual that we were following the scenario set up and others were having fun too.  Nothing would stop him.

Saturday evening.  We log in again, same thing.

Sunday, I played in the main, wishing I could have been having fun in the AVA.

Thank you gentelmen. <S>

Z

Yeah, I was in there Saturday night and was a part of the taking of A30 (I also porked the ords at A8 to keep the carriers safe.) It was a good time and an intense battle.

Then something happened...

It seems that a whole slew of defenders logged off leaving the numbers very lopsided in favor of the Navy guys. Instead of switching sides to even out the fight, (I find this to be a big need for the arena) the Navy guys used the numerical superiority to steamroll bases. This is what started to irk some people.

Then I noticed something else happening...

As soon as the P-51's and P-47's were available, all the "Navy guys" started flying them in their typical BnZ, 5v1, HO-you-till-you-die fashion. This irked me a little, but not too badly. Especially since a few of us were mopping the floor with the Allies, even going so far as to start a base take of our own. I got tired and went to bed.


In a nutshell: Lopsided steamrolling is lame, but so is whining about it. Just get into your plane and get to the business of killin.

 :salute
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Offline Tyrannis

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2011, 05:19:18 PM »

As soon as the P-51's and P-47's were available, all the "Navy guys" started flying them in their typical BnZ, 5v1, HO-you-till-you-die fashion. This irked me a little, but not too badly. Especially since a few of us were mopping the floor with the Allies, even going so far as to start a base take of our own. I got tired and went to bed.




Ive flown the pony from the start, even doing the 30 min flight from the far islands to get it to the mainland.  Ive encountered some good fights, but the majority of Japs ive seen are nothing but HO'ing nikki's.


Theres problems on both sides of the bridge.

Offline Zoney

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2011, 07:04:16 PM »
Melvin, we ask for your forgiveness and patience.  Us "Navy guys" are in a squad so we were waiting and hoping more players or another squad would come in and appose us.  We learned from this and now know that we will have to switch sides to keep it balanced.  We have already discussed this on our squad message board today.  Because we had so much fun there we are very willing to do the work to fit in, grow the arena, and have even more fun with new friends.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 07:52:35 PM by Zoney »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Suggestion for the AvA
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2011, 07:08:52 PM »
Because we had so much fun there we are very willing to do the work to fit in, grow the arena, and have even more fun with new friends.


This is most excellent. 

Will try to get in there tonight.

- oldman