Collision Model

[dedalos]

yes, i do.   whether you want them to or not, airplanes shouldn't be flying THROUGH one another.   how hard is it to not smash into somebody?  you keep saying you understand how it works.  if that is true, then how do not understand the why?  i'm not calling you out or anything here, but can you tell me why it SHOULDN'T be there?   real examples please, not some made up stuff like "pull up at the last second and you will always collide" because that dog don't hunt.

Because you only think about the cases were a collision is clear with two planes driving into each other.  The pull up at the last second is not made up stuff.  Get in a set of buffs and lest go in the DA and try it.  I will make you collide about 50% of the time.  This is one of the things I don;t like about it.  The other not made up stuff is that it is hard enough to avoid the 51s and 190s diving in for a pick.  It is even harder to avoid getting rear ended while fighting someone else.  What does the game gain from that?

So, stop thinking about collisions on a head to head situation.  I have never complained when I screwed up like that.  There are so many realism futures not included in this game, why is this one so important?  Once again, the goal is to end a fight.  Now, if you are looking for total realism then I agree, collisions are needed but I guess I am looking for a game.

[hitech]

lest go in the DA and try it.  I will make you collide about 50% of the time.  

Ill take that bet for $100.

HiTech

[Citabria]

hmm so the reason I have not tried mock dogfighting with real planes and kept to solo aerobatics because of the extreme danger of collisions during unpredictable maneuvering is being complained about in a game that is designed to model the dangers of aerial combat?

sounds like the system is working as intended.

[LCADolby]

Ill take that bet for $100.

HiTech

A safe bet on your COAD, but throw in the limitations of the internet...

[IrishOne]

A safe bet on your COAD, but throw in the limitations of the internet...

this is the point.    this is what we've been discussing this whole time.   the limitations of the 'net are what causes a collision to happen on one end and not the other.   call me crazy, but i'm willing to bet HiTech knows EXACTLY how this works, all variables included.

[ImADot]

now you got it.    that is exactly what happens.    just the other day i was doing some high speed scissoring with DazyCutr.   we must have collided on his end, because when i looked back he was tumbling down in pieces.   on my end we were close, but we did not hit.   i got the collision message.   i'm pretty sure he got one too.   no damage to me whatsoever.   he died.    it is what it is, and it is not wrong.

Quite simply:

If your front-end detects a collision and his does not, you see "you have collided" and you take damage but he does not.
If his front-end detects a collision and your does not, you see "xxx has collided with you" and you take no damage but he does.
If both front-ends detect a collision, you both see both messages and you both take damage.

So, fly your computer to avoid collisions and you will avoid collisions. Sometimes it's impossible to avoid, but blame it on poor SA and/or a lot of 'net lag on someone's side. Time to quit whining about it and get on with playing the game.

[IrishOne]

Quite simply:

If your front-end detects a collision and his does not, you see "you have collided" and you take damage but he does not.
If his front-end detects a collision and your does not, you see "xxx has collided with you" and you take no damage but he does.
If both front-ends detect a collision, you both see both messages and you both take damage.

So, fly your computer to avoid collisions and you will avoid collisions. Sometimes it's impossible to avoid, but blame it on poor SA and/or a lot of 'net lag on someone's side. Time to quit whining about it and get on with playing the game.

well put.    however i fear some just don't want to get it.   no matter how simply you put it 

[dirtdart]

Things that I know to be true since my connection sucks:

1.  When I review my films I see tracers coming out of the guns headed three to four planes lengths behind me as opposing planes make deflection shots.  I also see hit sprites impacting my plane.  Clearly, the other guy and I do not share the same exact picture, temporally speaking.  I frankly do not think it is possible.  

2.  In most collisions, because my net is so terrible (remember my lag etc.... is the same from central MO to Dallas as Switzerland) I lose the majority of all collisions.  Most collisions from my point of view take place whe I run at an angle underneath or in front of other planes.  From my point of view I have plenty of clearance, just not the case overall.  

All that said, it is just a quirk of the game and until the planet is covered in fiberoptic wonder cable and all of our systems are no more than 5 ping apart... it is what it is.  The only other alternative would be to disable collsions, which would bring a new meaning to the notion of a HO.  Think about pulling a mustang into a B17 like a jeep into a tank.  

I don't like it, but the alternative is worse.  

 

[dedalos]

this is the point.    this is what we've been discussing this whole time.   the limitations of the 'net are what causes a collision to happen on one end and not the other.   call me crazy, but i'm willing to bet HiTech knows EXACTLY how this works, all variables included.

Nop, it has nothing to do with how it works or how it happens.  It has to do with not liking it.  That is the point and it keeps getting converted to why and how it happens.  I don;t really care how or why.  I care that it is there and it is a way to end a fight.  Lets bump up the puffy, have it over fields and town, have it use the proxy fuses and aim at you instead of random, increase the field ack and make it do damage, etc if realism is what we are after.

[dedalos]

Ill take that bet for $100.

HiTech

I'll take the bet or we can just try it for a bottle of whiskey (wont hurt as much if I lose lol), but you will be playing over an internet connection and we some how will have to verify the ping times.  Given your explanation of how it works, do you honestly think i can;t cause your buffs to collide by flying across their nose really fast or do you hope I wont be able to time it right (may happen since I've been gone for a while)?

Win or lose, I won;t be able to understand why it is needed or like that it is there.  Don't you think it is funny that no one so far has given a reason on why we need it?  It is all about how it works 

[FLS]

Dirtdart you can only collide with the bandit on your PC where lag is not an issue. If you are losing collisions it has nothing to do with lag.

It's true that the bandit in your rear view has better angles than he appears to but he's hitting you on his PC and you're getting the slightly delayed hit messages from the server.

Lag does not affect your shooting at the bandit or your collisions with the bandit.

[IrishOne]

Don't you think it is funny that no one so far has given a reason on why we need it?  It is all about how it works 

the reason it is here is because when airplanes smash into one another in real life, there is a resulting catastrophe.   if they were to stop modelling things such as collisions, they might as well not model the air in which we fly.  it's in the game because it belongs in the game.   simple as that.  

[FLS]

Don't you think it is funny that no one so far has given a reason on why we need it?  It is all about how it works 

I think it's funny you didn't notice that the reason why we need collisions has in fact been mentioned by various people in this thread.

[mensa180]

Post film of Ded vs HT, I gotta see this

[Wiley]

Don't you think it is funny that no one so far has given a reason on why we need it?  It is all about how it works 

Except for here:

If there was no penalty for it, why wouldn't people just fly through your plane guns blazing?  It would be the easiest way to get a kill.  Up something fast and fly through the guy guns blazing, you don't even need to lead him.  It would become the best way to kill buffs.  The possibility of collision makes the average player fly to avoid them, which makes for better gameplay than the alternative.

Wiley.

and here:

If the "collision" were to be removed from the game, dog fighting as we know it will no longer exist.

Angle fighting is what it is because of the threat of a collision. Who can get the best angle(s) on their opponent without collision and without getting shot usually equates to a win. Take out the collision and I don't care what angle you throw at me, I can probably get a better angle or counter your angle by simply flying thru you ... now that sucks.

I have been here for close to ten years now and have always been an "angles" fighter ... that means close quarters flying ... and I can probably count on my 2 hands and maybe one of yours the amount of collisions that I have had while fighting or evading. It's not a big deal when it happens ... you get another plane and try again.

Some people here make it seem like collisions happen all the time to just about all the people who play this game and it is a rampant problem ... which it isn't ... there is nothing to fix here but some peoples flying tactics.

If you are frequently dieing to collisions ... check your flying abilities because they are the suck.

And a few 'I agrees' thrown in around them.

I find it odd that you guys still haven't answered my question.  Why it is an improvement to have a collision model where what you see on your end isn't always what you get?

Wiley.