Author Topic: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE  (Read 5933 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2011, 08:51:10 AM »
My whole point on this is that HTC has had plenty of time to study the FW190A8 issue, and they've decided (it seems) that the weight of the aircraft is fine.  Giving them the benefit of the doubt, the important question is why.  Obviously, despite all the documentation the players have found, they still have a good reason to keep it the way it is.  Given their willingness to make changes in the past, when errors or omissions have been found, don't you think its conspicuous that they haven't made a change yet?  That means that they are in possession of some sort of material that they feel justifies the weight as currently modeled.  Perhaps, instead of the semi-annual "fix the weight" thread, some energy could be made towards finding out whatever it is they have.  It must exist out there for someone who really wants to find it...

It could simply be that they haven't addressed it or it isn't a priority. I should of thought it would be more productive requesting one of the intermediate models, but I am not an Fw190 expert I don't even know what they are.

I did have a discussion recently regarding the weight being due to considerable amounts of armour fitted? I understand this included a plate to protect the annular oil cooler and even, uniquely, the side parts of the cockpit. I did want to test this out with some experimental shooting, but I generally only see one of two views of the Fw190A-8 in the MA, it's either coming towards you firing or going away from you running, I'm not even sure what it looks like from the side  :lol

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Offline Wiley

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2011, 12:11:17 PM »
It could simply be that they haven't addressed it or it isn't a priority. I should of thought it would be more productive requesting one of the intermediate models, but I am not an Fw190 expert I don't even know what they are.

The 'model in game being the heaviest variant' theory rings true with me.  The 800-1000 lb figure I've seen thrown around hasn't been brought up in this thread, but if that had been the case I can't see them not prioritizing a fix.  800 lbs is a big number.

All that's been mentioned in this thread that was a concrete figure was 35 lbs.  That's not much difference, accountable for by slight differences in test setups for different documentation.  If it's the correct number swell, but I could see that being a low priority.

Wiley.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
I'm no 190 expert either. The only 190 I have seen is either far away moving farther away as fast as possible.... or in many pieces. In many cases most of the parts are missing. Testing any parts left are inconclusive due to holes and burned areas.
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Offline Plazus

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2011, 04:15:34 PM »
Shuffler,

This could suggest that the removal of certain parts in the 190 may assist in weight reduction and improved maneuverability. Because flight model of the 190 is so nerfed, it would only make sense to sacrifice parts like elevators, flaps and/or wings to help assist with maneuvering at low altitudes, particularly at ground level.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 04:27:14 PM by Plazus »
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2011, 04:40:50 PM »
Shuffler,

This could suggest that the removal of certain parts in the 190 may assist in weight reduction and improved maneuverability. Because flight model of the 190 is so nerfed, it would only make sense to sacrifice parts like elevators, flaps and/or wings to help assist with maneuvering at low altitudes, particularly at ground level.
:rofl  removal of the wings has been shown to increase the dive capability 1000%. experiments to reach mach 1 have been conducted but pilots have yet to report any success.
jarhed  
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2011, 05:19:36 PM »
Shuffler,

This could suggest that the removal of certain parts in the 190 may assist in weight reduction and improved maneuverability. Because flight model of the 190 is so nerfed, it would only make sense to sacrifice parts like elevators, flaps and/or wings to help assist with maneuvering at low altitudes, particularly at ground level.

I have seen many 190s at ground level... or just beneath it.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2011, 06:38:17 PM »

<snip>

Regarding the 190 series, this is just a suggestion, but maybe instead of disputing the weights etc endlessly, why doesn't someone suggest a useful intermediate model that HTC could produce using the current 3d and damage models, in the same way that they did with the recent P-47 variants. If you did all the work and presented it with references perhaps Mr HiTech would be more receptive to considering the inclusion of some more subtypes.



Alternate A-8 variants, A-7s and A-9s have been suggested and presented many many times in this forum, I counter that you find me a 6-month gap where one hasn't been. 

It is obvious that fatigue over the subject from the community's majority and HT/HTC as a whole, if nothing else, seeds the feelings of dispair and frustration amongst the 190 lovers in this community.  The fact we can't set half of our own supporters straight on the overweight issue and that the current model isn't glaringly overweight is another genuine source of disheartening and frustration.


My whole point on this is that HTC has had plenty of time to study the FW190A8 issue, and they've decided (it seems) that the weight of the aircraft is fine.  Giving them the benefit of the doubt, the important question is why.  Obviously, despite all the documentation the players have found, they still have a good reason to keep it the way it is.  Given their willingness to make changes in the past, when errors or omissions have been found, don't you think its conspicuous that they haven't made a change yet?  That means that they are in possession of some sort of material that they feel justifies the weight as currently modeled.  Perhaps, instead of the semi-annual "fix the weight" thread, some energy could be made towards finding out whatever it is they have.  It must exist out there for someone who really wants to find it...

Dragging HT or anyone at HTCs into another 190A-8 discussion, productive or not, is just that - dragged, by force.  But I would love for their participation and/or resources to be actively involved in this discussion, however that is nobody's decision here to make so instead you get the nupties, like me.



Keep enjoying your jokes and laughs guys, it'll just make the next 190 thread that leads to nowhere show up that much sooner, and restock HTC's toilet paper supply.  So the cycle continues.

Edit: Plazus and Shuffler, when's the last time I came in and pissed in a P-38's bowl of Cheerios in the wishlist forum?  Remind me to return the most courteous favor.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 06:46:44 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2011, 10:23:29 PM »
Quick... someone get the net.
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Offline Tordon22

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2011, 11:47:23 PM »
You're gosh dang right. You know all too well how often these SAPP jerks are in here petitioning HTC to take about 5k lbs off the top of the ol' J/L models. And the shame is that they get it too! I would link those results to better mouths and US favoritism. Get off our lawn, home wreckers.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2011, 12:06:16 AM »
You're gosh dang right. You know all too well how often these SAPP jerks are in here petitioning HTC to take about 5k lbs off the top of the ol' J/L models. And the shame is that they get it too! I would link those results to better mouths and US favoritism. Get off our lawn, home wreckers.

Last time we talked about the weights of 38s, they added 600 pounds to the 38G.  The SAPP 38 drivers don't complain about aircraft weight anymore.  We learned our lesson :)
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Offline Tordon22

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2011, 12:10:45 AM »
What a setup for that  bit of info! Hehe, carry on. Couldn't help myself there.

Offline Plazus

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2011, 08:53:49 AM »
It is obvious that fatigue over the subject from the community's majority and HT/HTC as a whole, if nothing else, seeds the feelings of dispair and frustration amongst the 190 lovers in this community.  The fact we can't set half of our own supporters straight on the overweight issue and that the current model isn't glaringly overweight is another genuine source of disheartening and frustration.

Keep enjoying your jokes and laughs guys, it'll just make the next 190 thread that leads to nowhere show up that much sooner, and restock HTC's toilet paper supply.  So the cycle continues.

My deepest, most sincere and heartfelt sympathy goes out to you and all those greatly affected by the 190A8s patheticness. Here is a pony to cheer you guys up.



Quote
Edit: Plazus and Shuffler, when's the last time I came in and pissed in a P-38's bowl of Cheerios in the wishlist forum?  Remind me to return the most courteous favor.

Please link to me where I have ever made a post about the P38 being incorrectly modeled. Or anything incorrect about the P38 for that matter.
Plazus
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Offline Wiley

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2011, 10:17:44 AM »
Last time we talked about the weights of 38s, they added 600 pounds to the 38G.  The SAPP 38 drivers don't complain about aircraft weight anymore.  We learned our lesson :)

They forgot to add the weight of the giant slab of armored glass didn't they? ;)

Wiley.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2011, 11:30:02 AM »
Just because a 190 can't out perform a 38 that is carrying bombs in a turn does not mean the 190 is overweight.

Weight changed greatly across the span of each set of aircraft. I believe AH just uses the most noted setups averaged. Of course that is just a guess as I do not have any more information than what they generally release to SAPP.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: FW-190 A-8CLARIFICATION,FIX,DISPUTE
« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2011, 05:43:36 PM »
Funny thing about a ditch, it's held up by two walls of contention.
-Babalon
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