Author Topic: On Sleep and its Deprivation  (Read 5272 times)

Offline Penguin

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #120 on: October 13, 2011, 10:59:28 PM »
Anyone here an IT guy?  I need some help.  Today, I tried scanning my document at school with one of those GIGANTIC photocopiers, and it was supposed to e-mail the images to me.  However, they haven't gotten here and it's been several hours.  I had set it to single JPEG TIFF.  What do those acronyms mean?  I'm just so confused, I want to get this picture up but I don't know how! :(

EDIT: I have a DSLR, so I should be able to roughly replicate the results of a scan with some careful calibration... There!  Ok, so here are the images.  I did my best to keep my shadow out, but if you want a do-over I can make that happen.

Here are the pictures, check them out:


















These are in no particular order, but you can see that I'm not pulling this out from down under.  

-Penguin
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 11:30:31 PM by Penguin »

Offline Flipperk

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #121 on: October 13, 2011, 11:07:34 PM »
Anyone here an IT guy?  I need some help.  Today, I tried scanning my document at school with one of those GIGANTIC photocopiers, and it was supposed to e-mail the images to me.  However, they haven't gotten here and it's been several hours.  I had set it to single JPEG TIFF.  What do those acronyms mean?  I'm just so confused, I want to get this picture up but I don't know how! :(

-Penguin


Means you screwed up, JPEG is just the file type the picture was saved. You probably entered the email address wrong, or the photocopier wasnt connected to the internet.
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Offline Jayhawk

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #122 on: October 13, 2011, 11:23:09 PM »
I never asked for a photocopy of the article, just the author, title, journal, year.
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Offline canacka

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #123 on: October 14, 2011, 06:41:05 AM »
Um, that is no different then your essay.  You said you read Carskadon's study and agree with her findings.  That isn't the study you said you had otherwise she wouldn't be in a reference section.  That's the study I want to see, not another paper.  If it has merit, I will give you props and it will help to see where your coming from.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #124 on: October 14, 2011, 08:12:41 AM »
You asserted that I'm ignorant, and I replied.  Marvelling at my own genius would be posting those scores off the cuff.

You also made two other assumptions- that I consume sugar and caffeine before bed.  The only caffeine that I ever consume any more is black tea if I'm feeling under the weather and want something warm.  I never eat sugar before bed because dinner is usually at 5-6, with dessert shortly thereafter.

Would you seriously entertain the thought of funding chronotherapy for over 800 kids?  The cost would be staggering, and look at the side-effects.  In three cases, it permanatly damaged the circadian clock to such an extent that the individual could never go back to a 24-hour cycle.  The safety is also not fully known- it's not something that one should do without their doctor's supervision.

The delayed sleep phase syndrome that you refer to does not explain the staggering number of kids who are wide awake at 22:00.  The disorder only affects 3 in 2,000 indviduals.  If your assertion were correct, the inverse would be true in my school.
spelling it out again...getting tiresome. you do eat sugar before bed, approximately 2-4 hours prior to according to what you claim is the time you attempt to go to sleep. if you had properly researched the digestive cycle and metabolism you would have known that. you also failed to consider that the dessert you consume after dinner is undoubtedly full of sugar and, unless you're drinking plain water or an artificially sweetened caffeine free soft drink, there is sugar in whatever you drink between dinner and bed time. i have bad news for you, even pre-pubescent children with no physiological problems or hormonal imbalances can be wide awake at 2200, especially if they eat or drink anything with sugar or carbohydrates within 2 hours of the time they go to bed.

you really should do more studying outside of your supposed hormonal imbalance to make your case more substantial...here is the elementary version of one thing you should have researched.
http://www.wereyouwondering.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-digest-food/

note that the metabolism of glucose begins at the time the food enters the small intestine, approximately ~2 hours after the food is consumed. what you should research next is the effects of glucose on the body and the brain activity that occurs when glucose is metabolised. on the other hand, considering what you have managed to improperly research and extrapolate thus far, it is possible that your hormone imbalance could prevent you from absorbing the correct information.

you have yet to show any actual relevant data and yet you are attempting to claim that 800 students in your school population all have the same physiological problem as you do. a call to the cdc may be in order because that would insinuate an epidemic. where is your statistical data on the number of children in your school with the same "affliction" you claim to have? for that matter what data do you have that shows a "staggering number of kids" being awake at 2200 that share the same "affliction" within your city, county, state, or the nation?

it's extremely obvious you didn't do any further research on delayed sleep and associated disorders.

maybe if you spent less time looking for reasons for your inability to sleep, you could actually get some sleep. class dismissed.
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline uptown

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #125 on: October 14, 2011, 08:22:28 AM »
You guys have been aruging with a kid for 8 pages now  :bhead
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2011, 09:52:25 AM »
lol, it was 5 until you posted uptown...  :lol
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline SlapShot

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #127 on: October 14, 2011, 03:27:19 PM »
So basically in a nutshell, You don't want to wake up early and want to sleep.  Join the rest of us! You keep blaming things on something else which is sad because it seems in today's society that is the trend.  Dude, get your butt up and go to school!  It's not hard, but then again if your lazy and want things catered to you then go ahead and present this.  You won't get far.

Finally ... the truth.
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Offline Penguin

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #128 on: October 14, 2011, 04:03:05 PM »
spelling it out again...getting tiresome. you do eat sugar before bed, approximately 2-4 hours prior to according to what you claim is the time you attempt to go to sleep. if you had properly researched the digestive cycle and metabolism you would have known that. you also failed to consider that the dessert you consume after dinner is undoubtedly full of sugar and, unless you're drinking plain water or an artificially sweetened caffeine free soft drink, there is sugar in whatever you drink between dinner and bed time. i have bad news for you, even pre-pubescent children with no physiological problems or hormonal imbalances can be wide awake at 2200, especially if they eat or drink anything with sugar or carbohydrates within 2 hours of the time they go to bed.

you really should do more studying outside of your supposed hormonal imbalance to make your case more substantial...here is the elementary version of one thing you should have researched.
http://www.wereyouwondering.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-digest-food/

note that the metabolism of glucose begins at the time the food enters the small intestine, approximately ~2 hours after the food is consumed. what you should research next is the effects of glucose on the body and the brain activity that occurs when glucose is metabolised. on the other hand, considering what you have managed to improperly research and extrapolate thus far, it is possible that your hormone imbalance could prevent you from absorbing the correct information.

you have yet to show any actual relevant data and yet you are attempting to claim that 800 students in your school population all have the same physiological problem as you do. a call to the cdc may be in order because that would insinuate an epidemic. where is your statistical data on the number of children in your school with the same "affliction" you claim to have? for that matter what data do you have that shows a "staggering number of kids" being awake at 2200 that share the same "affliction" within your city, county, state, or the nation?

it's extremely obvious you didn't do any further research on delayed sleep and associated disorders.

maybe if you spent less time looking for reasons for your inability to sleep, you could actually get some sleep. class dismissed.

The digestion of food takes 5-6 hours, and what I can gather from http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html does not point to anything like the long-lasting stimulant effects you describe.  Simple sugars are quickly digested and released; for instance, soft drinks last for 1-2 hours then another boost is necessary.  As for your argument that glucose takes 1-2 hours to metabolise, you're dead wrong, allow me to quote the site directly:

Quote
Simple carbohydrates are found in most processed or refined foods and some natural foods. These carbohydrates have short-chained sugar molecules and, because they break apart quickly, enter the bloodstream quickly. Sugary foods--including corn syrup, fruit juices, and honey--contain glucose that is absorbed directly through the stomach wall and rapidly released into the bloodstream, almost as quickly as if delivered by syringe.
 

Eating processed sugar is almost as fast as pumping directly into your bloodstream, not this long-term digestive process.  When you said 1-2 hours, I believe you referred to complex carbohydrates.  However, these take so long to digest that their effect on overall activity level is negligible.  However, complex carbohydrates can assist learning by providing an energy source for the brain.

To conclude, I don't see how sometimes having dessert and/or a glass of fruit juice is impacting my sleep schedule.  If I eat dinner at 18:00, (which is as late as it gets, the normal time is 16:00-17:30) then I should be wiped out at 20:00 by the ensuing sugar crash.  The complex carbohydrates I eat do not keep me up at night, and thus there is little evidence for food being the cause of the problem (unless you guzzle down a sugary beverage immediately before retiring to bed).  Caffeine is similar, however its effects can last out to three hours, but again, it would require that one consumed it long after dinner to have it keep one up at night.  Seeing as I don't gulp down sugary or caffeinated drinks before bed, it certainly does not apply to me.

Finally ... the truth.

It's like wanting a bed with a matress instead of just a wooden frame.  Sure, you can sleep on the frame if you are tired enough, but a matress helps people get a better night's sleep.

-Penguin

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #129 on: October 14, 2011, 06:04:06 PM »
You left out a t in mattress Peng. 

I haven't read the whole thread but, when someone figures out how to cure my insomnia without the use of narcotics, let me know.

For the record I don't eat generally after 3 and don't drink cokes, coffee, or sugared drinks. Unless you count beer.

BTW Peng.  Gyrene?  He's pretty smart.  If you'd listen to him instead of arguing with him even if you disagree with his points you'll probably learn A LOT. 

Gyrene?  You're still a knucklehead.   :neener:
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Offline skorpion

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #130 on: October 14, 2011, 06:19:48 PM »
You left out a t in mattress Peng. 

I haven't read the whole thread but, when someone figures out how to cure my insomnia without the use of narcotics, let me know.

oh i can easily fix that dicho, just let me grab my baseball bat and...:lol

or if you want to do it yourself... :bolt:

Offline gyrene81

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #131 on: October 14, 2011, 08:47:22 PM »
The digestion of food takes 5-6 hours, and what I can gather from http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html does not point to anything like the long-lasting stimulant effects you describe.  Simple sugars are quickly digested and released; for instance, soft drinks last for 1-2 hours then another boost is necessary.  As for your argument that glucose takes 1-2 hours to metabolise, you're dead wrong, allow me to quote the site directly:

Eating processed sugar is almost as fast as pumping directly into your bloodstream, not this long-term digestive process.  When you said 1-2 hours, I believe you referred to complex carbohydrates.  However, these take so long to digest that their effect on overall activity level is negligible.  However, complex carbohydrates can assist learning by providing an energy source for the brain.

To conclude, I don't see how sometimes having dessert and/or a glass of fruit juice is impacting my sleep schedule.  If I eat dinner at 18:00, (which is as late as it gets, the normal time is 16:00-17:30) then I should be wiped out at 20:00 by the ensuing sugar crash.  The complex carbohydrates I eat do not keep me up at night, and thus there is little evidence for food being the cause of the problem (unless you guzzle down a sugary beverage immediately before retiring to bed).  Caffeine is similar, however its effects can last out to three hours, but again, it would require that one consumed it long after dinner to have it keep one up at night.  Seeing as I don't gulp down sugary or caffeinated drinks before bed, it certainly does not apply to me.

It's like wanting a bed with a matress instead of just a wooden frame.  Sure, you can sleep on the frame if you are tired enough, but a matress helps people get a better night's sleep.

-Penguin
i'm sorry but, you're still way out in left field and lazy on top of it all. not that i completely disagree that your school should change the start time by at least 1 hour but, thus far you have not presented any real hard evidence to support your stance. you again make a claim that science can refute. should have done more research on the digestive cycle, brain function and the metabolism of glucose.

just so you're very clear where your argument fails to hold substance...

you haven't proven you suffer from anything other than lifestyle that would contribute to your sleep dysfunction. self diagnosis is not proof.
you have not shown that you were examined and diagnosed by a physician nor undergone any possible treatments for any issues that could contribute to your sleep cycle dysfunction.
you have not presented anything more than conjecture that any percentage students within your school share the same or similar physiological issues and accompanying sleep dysfunctions.
nor have you shown that any percentage, let alone a significant portion of students within your school would benefit from a later start time.
nearly all of the resources you presented show that a change in school start time alone will not significantly alter the effects that physiological changes and lifestyle choices produces in teens.
you have not been able to refute the evidence that lifestyle and eating habits are as contributory to problems with sleeping cycles as hormonal changes in adolescents.


i know you're young and taking the time to follow something to its conclusion can be difficult, but you have made some pretty boastful claims around here which makes some of us expect more from you. i can tell you haven't done any real research, the resources on your initial claim are mostly from the same research and lack any actual statistical data. your subsequent responses lack real conviction on your stance because you fail to research the evidence that refutes your claims to its fullest extent. when you look at something all you find is what you expect to see, nothing more. you need to learn to look deeper, examine every possible aspect, anticipate rebuttal and look for evidence that supports the rebuttal, then look for ways to support your stance and refute it with complete evidence.

to fully back your stance, that paper should include a larger variety of research, specifics on hormonal imbalances in adolescents, statstical data specific to sleep dysfunction in adolescents, as well as the costs associated with medical treatments in lieu of a time change.





Gyrene?  You're still a knucklehead.   :neener:
:rofl   :lol   :rofl   :lol 
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Penguin

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2011, 09:16:06 PM »
i'm sorry but, you're still way out in left field and lazy on top of it all. not that i completely disagree that your school should change the start time by at least 1 hour but, thus far you have not presented any real hard evidence to support your stance. you again make a claim that science can refute. should have done more research on the digestive cycle, brain function and the metabolism of glucose.

just so you're very clear where your argument fails to hold substance...

you haven't proven you suffer from anything other than lifestyle that would contribute to your sleep dysfunction. self diagnosis is not proof.
you have not shown that you were examined and diagnosed by a physician nor undergone any possible treatments for any issues that could contribute to your sleep cycle dysfunction.
you have not presented anything more than conjecture that any percentage students within your school share the same or similar physiological issues and accompanying sleep dysfunctions.
nor have you shown that any percentage, let alone a significant portion of students within your school would benefit from a later start time.
nearly all of the resources you presented show that a change in school start time alone will not significantly alter the effects that physiological changes and lifestyle choices produces in teens.
you have not been able to refute the evidence that lifestyle and eating habits are as contributory to problems with sleeping cycles as hormonal changes in adolescents.


i know you're young and taking the time to follow something to its conclusion can be difficult, but you have made some pretty boastful claims around here which makes some of us expect more from you. i can tell you haven't done any real research, the resources on your initial claim are mostly from the same research and lack any actual statistical data. your subsequent responses lack real conviction on your stance because you fail to research the evidence that refutes your claims to its fullest extent. when you look at something all you find is what you expect to see, nothing more. you need to learn to look deeper, examine every possible aspect, anticipate rebuttal and look for evidence that supports the rebuttal, then look for ways to support your stance and refute it with complete evidence.

to fully back your stance, that paper should include a larger variety of research, specifics on hormonal imbalances in adolescents, statstical data specific to sleep dysfunction in adolescents, as well as the costs associated with medical treatments in lieu of a time change.




 :rofl   :lol   :rofl   :lol 

I never stated that I had a sleep dysfunction.

Look at the images that I posted, and you should see a bar graph showing the average numbers of hours of sleep.  You should also see a paragraph below the graph dealing with the number of car crashes falling as a result.

So you want more on lifestyle and food consumption not being the main contributors, eh?  That'll take a few days because right now, I need to go to sleep (ah irony).

-Penguin

Offline Jayhawk

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2011, 09:34:58 PM »
Okay, so a single page of all those pictures actually had the title.

Google.

TaDa: http://www.sleepeducation.com/resources/lessons/teensdrowsydriving/schoolstarttimes.pdf

Why did that take you a week?
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Offline Penguin

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Re: On Sleep and its Deprivation
« Reply #134 on: October 14, 2011, 10:00:23 PM »
Okay, so a single page of all those pictures actually had the title.

Google.

TaDa: http://www.sleepeducation.com/resources/lessons/teensdrowsydriving/schoolstarttimes.pdf

Why did that take you a week?

Like I said, I only had a paper copy.

-Penguin