Check the homepage - new Panzer IV's on the way.

[gyrene81]

so, how exactly were they used as armor? kind of an odd place to put additional tracks if its supposed to be for protection, especially on top of the "fold" in the upper hull.

research it yourself...that's the only way you're going to learn and understand the concept.

[MK-84]

My knee jerk reaction to that was to say that the different 75mm guns all fired the same HE round.  While I'm still not %100 sure either way, I have a source that list the Pzr IV H's 75mm Kw.K.40 L / 48 as having a 5.8kg projectile w/ a .64 charge of Amatol (TNT), and the Pzr IV F1's 75mm Kw.K. 37 L / 24 as having a 5.74kg projectile w/ a .69kg charge of Amatol.  Yet, both are named exactly the same (7.5cm Sprgr. 34).  

So hmmmmm.... not sure what to think.

  

I know exactly what to think...

What does the Tiger2 have for explosive charge in its HE shell?  Because that will take out a town building with one hit.

Think maybe stubby can do that?  If it can that would make it a real game changer.

Either way all I can say is  I cant wait for all the new toys

[Oldman731]

Also, HVAP loses any advantage once ranges of 1000-1200 yards, it simply does not have the kinetic energy to punch through.  So at ranges beyond 1000 yards, the Panzer F2 and H have a distinct advantage over the T34/76. 

I doubt many tanks were firing at each other at 1000+ yard ranges in WWII.  Is that possible in AH?

- oldman

[MK-84]

I doubt many tanks were firing at each other at 1000+ yard ranges in WWII.  Is that possible in AH?

- oldman

I can not source this, because I am both stupid and lazy, but I am understanding that shots at much greater distances were made routinely in RL.  I want to say that I've read about lots of reports of Tiger tanks specifically firing well outside that range because their opponent could not.

In AH it's very much possible, although in a Panzer, or T34's outside of 1600yards I find it hard to see what deflection I am actually aiming at, and as a result i get a good amount or ricochets. 

I think Butcher can help with the historically accurate part, as well as the ingame part in terms of explanation better than I.  or Luche or DR7, or Hooter...etc...

[SmokinLoon]

I know exactly what to think...

What does the Tiger2 have for explosive charge in its HE shell?  Because that will take out a town building with one hit.

Think maybe stubby can do that?  If it can that would make it a real game changer.

Either way all I can say is  I cant wait for all the new toys

Hmmm... really?  A King Tiger does 312 lbs of damage with its HE shell???  I have yet to test this but me thinks HTC would not give an HE shell from a tank more "ooomph" than the 28cm rockets fired by the SdKfz 251.  HTC has assigned a damage value of 285 lbs of damage to the 28cm "Wurfkorper" bombardment rockets.

Without testing, I'd be willing to bet the King Tiger does 234 lbs of HE damage right along side the Tiger I and T34/85.  I bet there was damage already done if the buildings went down w 1 shot... OR... someone at HTC was drunk when they assigned a 312+ lb damage value to the HE of the King Tiger.    

Oh, just an FYI: the M4A3/75mm and M3/75mm (same gun) are second only to the 3 big boys with a HE damage value of 178.  Actually, the LVT-4 should do the same HE damage as the M4/M3 75mm since the LVT-4 fires the same 75mm HE shell, but it only does 156 lbs like the T34/76, Panzer IV, and Panther.

[SmokinLoon]

I doubt many tanks were firing at each other at 1000+ yard ranges in WWII.  Is that possible in AH?

- oldman

In North Africa and on the Eastern Front, ranges of 1000 yards were very common.  Especially on the wide open plains and steppes of Eastern Europe.  In Western Europe, the ranges were not nearly as long due to the abundance of trees, hedge rows, etc.  The Germans used their superior optics to good use whenever they could.

[skorpion]

IIRC the Jagdpanther *given the opportunity* shot at tanks from about 3 miles or so away


i know the elephant was designed for long distance tank sniping during the battle of kursk.

[MK-84]

Hmmm... really?  A King Tiger does 312 lbs of damage with its HE shell???  I have yet to test this but me thinks HTC would not give an HE shell from a tank more "ooomph" than the 28cm rockets fired by the SdKfz 251.  HTC has assigned a damage value of 285 lbs of damage to the 28cm "Wurfkorper" bombardment rockets.

Without testing, I'd be willing to bet the King Tiger does 234 lbs of HE damage right along side the Tiger I and T34/85.  I bet there was damage already done if the buildings went down w 1 shot... OR... someone at HTC was drunk when they assigned a 312+ lb damage value to the HE of the King Tiger.    

Oh, just an FYI: the M4A3/75mm and M3/75mm (same gun) are second only to the 3 big boys with a HE damage value of 178.  Actually, the LVT-4 should do the same HE damage as the M4/M3 75mm since the LVT-4 fires the same 75mm HE shell, but it only does 156 lbs like the T34/76, Panzer IV, and Panther.

Relax please, I asked what the numbers were, and I was not specific.  But if you shoot a building with  an HE round from a Tiger2 it wipes out a building with one hit (unless I was drunk and remembered it wrong )  And I was wondering that if the new panzer does more HE dmg that maybe it would be just enough to take a building out with one hit.

Sheesh...go offline and test it or something, no need to be mean to me

[SmokinLoon]

Relax please, I asked what the numbers were, and I was not specific.  But if you shoot a building with  an HE round from a Tiger2 it wipes out a building with one hit (unless I was drunk and remembered it wrong )  And I was wondering that if the new panzer does more HE dmg that maybe it would be just enough to take a building out with one hit.

Sheesh...go offline and test it or something, no need to be mean to me

I will test it soon, you've made me curious.    Although, I bet Loooshy has tested it already.  Looshy, what say you????   

Im not sure of the exact damage value assigned to the HE round of the Tiger II, but I'm willing to bet it is the same as the Tiger I and T34/85.  There is no scale that HTC used that is of rhyme or reason.  If we start at the bottom of HE capable gv's and work our way up (M8 vs Tiger II) and compare the weight of the projectile and the weight of the explosive charge of all the HE rounds in between we will find that there is not a scaled and linear transgression of how HTC assigned damage to the HE shells.  The amount of difference between the Tiger I 88mm HE and the T34/85 HE is quite a bit (%20 more TNT in favor of the Tiger, iirc), yet in AH they have the exact same damage value assigned (234 lbs of dmg).  With that said, I'm not finding actual data on the Tiger II's 88mm HE but I can not imagine it to be much more capable, if any, than the Tiger I's HE.  As I stated in my prior post, the 28cm "Wurfkorper" has been assigned a damage value of 285 lbs of damage, yet are 86kg heavy with 45kg of that weight being TNT.  The HE shell of the Tiger I's 88mm shell weighs 10kg and there is less than 1kg of TNT, yet that has a damage value of 234 lbs.  Find the logic in that.  Remember the lowly M8 I mentioned?  That has an HE warhead of .73 with .039kg of TNT stuffed into the warhead, yet that does 31 lbs of damage. Start doing the ratios and you'll see that HTC does not assign based on a scale but rather "how many shots does it take to destroy X OBJ".   

I half way think HTC needs to A: get away from the same weight for all OBJ (312 lbs to destroy ords, barracks, fuel tanks, radar, town buildings, 2780 lbs for all hangers, etc).  No more rubber stamp. B: Each month change the amount of poundage needed to destroy an OBJ. C: Get the HE rounds for the gv's in some sort of historically accurate scale and make them the standard, not the OBJ targets.  Give each gv their due with properly scaled HE damages.

*rant off*  Sorry for the tangent, but each time this stuff comes up I wonder.     

[chaser]

WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!! Glad to see this!! Not only is it great to see an update for the Panzer but a new version of it to go along!

A little curious though. The panzer was the hardes tank to kill with a jeep, almost impossible. But all of the updated tanks are easy to kill so I wonder if the panzer will be as easy to kill now as the rest? 

[Squire]

The panzer was the hardes tank to kill with a jeep, almost impossible.

The "A" in AFV stands for armor.