Question for HTC: New Fighter Poll

[Brooke]

Well, I think that the only way to solve all of this is for everyone to vote for the Beaufighter.

Those of you who want the Me 410 or Meteor, as you can easily verify in Yog-Sothoth's Illustrated Compendium of WWII Aircraft, the Beaufighter, the Me 410, and the Meteor are all essentially the same aircraft.  According to Yog-Sothoth's, Meteor development started in 1938, but as the Whittle and de Havilland jet engines weren't ready in time, designers had to re-engine the prototype aircraft with conventional Taurus and Hercules engines (and, while they were at it, as it was rather a trivial amount of effort, changed the airframe, armament, landing gear, control systems, and crew layout).  The re-engined aircraft proved worthy in its own right, so it was renamed "Beaufighter" and went into production separately while development of the Whittle and de Havilland jet engines continued.  Meanwhile, German spies learned of the Meteor/Beaufighter development project and stole the plans.  Germany used those as the basis for the Me 410 (which is why it looks almost exactly the same as a Beaufighter).  Now it is true that the Meteor with its jet engines has a slightly different performance profile than the Beaufighter with its Bristol engines, but you will find that, upon loading the JAMP ("Jet Assisted Meteor Performance") pack available as a standard option for all Beaufighters after 1943, that the (once you shut down and feather the props) the Beaufighter has about the same performance as the Meteor.

So, as you can see, picking the Beaufighter satisfies all needs.

[Debrody]

Karnak, following your logic: if the japanese could stop the americans for 2 more years, then AH could have the f-84 too?
  There were amazing developements in the prototype phase in '44-'45, we all know. Just look how the germans improved from '44 summer to '45 winter: from g-6 to the k-4, from the a8 to the d9, from tiger1 to the tiger2, etc etc.
The mid-44 rides dont even play in the same league as the early-45 ones, right?
  Germany surrendered, couse it was beaten. But the allies could continue the developement with doubled energy, so plz dont compare the early-45 allied rides with the ones fighting (sometimes in very low numbers) in august. Especially considering that the only standing axis force /japanese/ couldnt continue their developement.
  The same is true with Germany: the heavies bombed the crap outta it. How could they produce the newest developements in maximum capacity while the british had a nearly untouched background, not to talk about the americans. Thats why i feel the meteor nonsense.

Edit: im not blind, sure am a luftwheenie, but will be happy with the jak or the beau too. Those were core aircrafts, played major roles in the war.

[Butcher]

Debrody,

I don't see your objections to the Ta152 being in the game.  Why not?  It was even less significant than the Meteor.

Comparing apples to oranges, same argument can be made for the CAC boomerang, did it serve a purpose in the war? Sure! It dropped smoke bombs so other aircraft can bomb, and did some strafing. What did the Meteor do? Shot down a few unmanned bombs and did some strafing.

Sure they served a purpose in the war, but when it comes down to it the Me-262 engaged enemy aircraft and flew over enemy lines, the Meteor wasn't
allowed to fly near the enemy lines let alone over enemy held territory.

History is written, my opinion is this and its only an opinion - the aircraft men flew and died in - while in combat deserve a spot in this game first. He-111, Do-17, Mig Series, Yak Series, Ki-43, 45, I mean the list can go on forever.

Sure the Meteor will be added to the game, eventually - when the rest of the slots get filled first.

[Karnak]

Karnak, following your logic: if the japanese could stop the americans for 2 more years, then AH could have the f-84 too?

If it had entered service and seen combat, yes.  Had the Japanese held for two more years, WWII would have been from 1939 through 1947.  What is hard to understand about that?
  

There were amazing developements in the prototype phase in '44-'45, we all know. Just look how the germans improved from '44 summer to '45 winter: from g-6 to the k-4, from the a8 to the d9, from tiger1 to the tiger2, etc etc.
The mid-44 rides dont even play in the same league as the early-45 ones, right?

The 1943 Spitfire LF.Mk IX seems to do pretty well mixed in with the 1945 rides.
 

Germany surrendered, couse it was beaten. But the allies could continue the developement with doubled energy, so plz dont compare the early-45 allied rides with the ones fighting (sometimes in very low numbers) in august. Especially considering that the only standing axis force /japanese/ couldnt continue their developement.

This is countered, probably to the strong overall benefit of the Germans in these games, by the fact that the Allies were not throwing whatever wonder weapon the could think of into immediate service.  Do you really think that the Allies would have held back on using the F7F, F8F, Meteor or other programs had they been pressed for survival?  The reason the Meteor III was limited in use was because the British did not want to risk technology falling into German hands.  They had the luxury of that choice. I can give more examples as well.

The same is true with Germany: the heavies bombed the crap outta it. How could they produce the newest developements in maximum capacity while the british had a nearly untouched background, not to talk about the americans. Thats why i feel the meteor nonsense.

And it is more than compensated by the fact that the Germans tossed wonder weapons into combat that were not remotely ready for prime time, such as the Me163.

Edit: im not blind, sure am a luftwheenie, but will be happy with the jak or the beau too. Those were core aircrafts, played major roles in the war.

You are ignoring the fact that the Allies had wonder weapon projects as well, but unlike the Germans were not pressed into using them.  The YP-80's sent to England and Italy would not have be YP-80s had the USAAF been pressed like the Luftwaffe, they would have been P-80s and we'd have been pushing them into combat as fast as possible.


The Beaufighter, Me410 and Yak-3 are obviously more significant to WWII history and more appropriate to the game.  You don't have to lie or distort the truth about the Meteor to make that point.

[IronDog]

The 152 airfield cover story is mostly myth IIRC.

Your probably right,as the Germans didn't have enough fuel to spend on fighter cap.They couldn't even keep the Luftwaffe in the air for lack of fuel,much less a bunch of 152's!They actually made a D-13,but I think it was a lot like the 152.I'm too lazy to drag my Axis war plane book out off my pile of aviation books to check it out!
I was watching a UFO Files program,and when Werner von Braun was asked how the German's had so many technical advanced weapons,he said "they helped us!",referring to aliens.I'm thinking if they had alien help,why did they get their butts whipped!!!

[perdue3]

No time for sources.

Explanation.  The destruction of 46 or 48 aircraft and an unknown number of German/German allied personnel,  on the ground and the stopping of 19 V1s was more significant and affected more people than a small (single digit) number of kills.

We dont play this game to win a war for civilians bro. We play to kill other aircraft through the air with dignity and honor. Some like to shoot at tool sheds. In some cases, it is a shed for tools. Either way, how can you base a plane's value on how many civilians it saved? Think about the planes we have that killed so many civilians. Youre logic is pathetic with the civilian bit. Still havent proved how the Meteor is a better fit than the 152.

[kilo2]

Your probably right,as the Germans didn't have enough fuel to spend on fighter cap.They couldn't even keep the Luftwaffe in the air for lack of fuel,much less a bunch of 152's!They actually made a D-13,but I think it was a lot like the 152.I'm too lazy to drag my Axis war plane book out off my pile of aviation books to check it out!
I was watching a UFO Files program,and when Werner von Braun was asked how the German's had so many technical advanced weapons,he said "they helped us!",referring to aliens.I'm thinking if they had alien help,why did they get their butts whipped!!!

Tin foil hat!

152 was a high alt plane used mostly to be high above the planes hitting buffs they were a cap for that. 30,000 ft+

Fuel was of course a problem but the main problem for the 152s was replacement parts. Near the end they were throwing on whatever parts they could find to keep at least a couple up. The confusion with the cap 262s thing comes because jg301 actually had a staffel who did just that, but in older 190s.

[Ruah]

wow. . .epic fail thread this has become.

1) Meteor is a jet, and the only reason people want it is because its an allied jet.  This is the sentimentalist argument.
2) Meteor is inferior in terms of performance except maby the Hispanos. . .but honestly those 30mm are a big reason the 262 is so deadly.
3) Meteor was not really designed or used for air-combat or even ground attack.  It was made to stop v1 rockets.  Even if it did venture to the continent, those were rare.
4) We don't need more jets. (opinion)
5) There is a quite long list of other planes that should be added before the Meteor - a host of Russian bombers and attack aircraft, lots of early war planes from all the countries with the possible exception of the US, UK and GER. 

- its disappointing that people want things like the 29 and the meteor when there are so many other things that would add so much more to the game.  But then again - see pt. 1.

[Ping]

Beaufighter.     

[IronDog]

Tin foil hat!

152 was a high alt plane used mostly to be high above the planes hitting buffs they were a cap for that. 30,000 ft+

Fuel was of course a problem but the main problem for the 152s was replacement parts. Near the end they were throwing on whatever parts they could find to keep at least a couple up. The confusion with the cap 262s thing comes because jg301 actually had a staffel who did just that, but in older 190s.

I made a model FW-190 D9 once,and to make it look authentic,I had mismatched parts all over the plane,as that's how they looked,because different parts coming from all over Germany were used,and they just slapped them together.Interestingly and due to the fact that parts for war equipment came from many small shops,Germany was actually still making good production at the wars end.

[Vinkman]

There seems to be lot of passionate Beaufighter fans. The problem I have with this plane is that looking at the pictures I've seen it seems to have zero reward visibility. Is it a fighter? Not very good performance, coupled with bad rear views makes for a flying death trap. No one likes flying death traps in the MA.

Not trying to poo poo on this plane, just wondering if those that want it think they will be competitive in it as a fighter, since this was a fighter poll.

If so, how?

 

[B4Buster]

So when do we find out who won?

[Kazaa]

There seems to ba lot of passionate Beaufighter fans. The problem I have with this plane is from the pictures I've seen is that it looks to have zero reward visibility. Is it a fighter? Not very good performance, coupled with bad rear views make a flying death trap. No one like flying death traps in the MA.

Not trying to poo poo on this plane, just wondering if those that want it think they will be competitive in it as a fighter, since this was a fighter poll.

If so, how?

 

Yeah, it has zero rear viability from what I can see. But we can use F3 mode, right? Or is F3 disabled for all Fighter/Bombers now?

[Krusty]

Like the Mossie it would most likely have no F3 mode.

[Vinkman]

Yeah, it has zero rear viability from what I can see. But we can use F3 mode, right? Or is F3 disabled for all Fighter/Bombers now?

Something tells me in one of the next Patches planes will have the F3 capability assigned to the plane instead of its hangar assignment and this won't be F3 enabled.