Author Topic: Bf 110 vs P-38  (Read 9115 times)

Offline ink

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2011, 06:33:12 PM »
.....

However, in most cases Boelcke's old Dicta rule no. 1 still matters most: "Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you."

I could understand if your life really depended on it, but in a game.... using that as an excuse for lame game play is...well....lame.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2011, 06:43:42 PM »
Your mileage may vary, but I find the game far more entertaining when the enemy is in my sights and not the other way around. Besides, flying a  110 in a combat environment filled with late-war spits, La's, 109's and other monsters I need every advantage I can get. If you don't agree then feel free to rant on ch 200 ;)
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Offline ink

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2011, 07:04:13 PM »
Your mileage may vary, but I find the game far more entertaining when the enemy is in my sights and not the other way around. Besides, flying a  110 in a combat environment filled with late-war spits, La's, 109's and other monsters I need every advantage I can get. If you don't agree then feel free to rant on ch 200 ;)

ever see me rant on 200?     yes I will call someone out for lame play but that is extremely rare, if you see me on 200 it is more often telling someone good shot...even if he was in a gang.


besides that I do agree with you on some levels.....the ganging vulches and HOing gets old, but what is just as bad as when someone wont engage because they do not have "advantage"

I flew to a base saw 5 nme con on 1 friendly of course they killed him, I was right above them,had about a 3 K advantage....can you guess what they did? all were 47's 51's and I think 1 KI84?
they....as one pointed their noses to the ground and ran towards their base....if that is not lame/pathetic game play then I don't know what is.

I engage no matter what, its a friggen game why are you here(not you but anyone) if not to have combat?

5 guys run to their field because they are not above me?  :rolleyes:




Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2011, 07:19:59 PM »
I can't remember seeing you on 200, or any other channel for that matter. Not that it matters. If you look at my post again you'll see that I advised against engaging a 38 (a superior E-fighter) if at an alt disadvantage. That's markedly different from running when you have a five to one numerical advantage, albeit with a slight alt disadvantage.

I play this game to have fun. Sometime that means furballing in dweeb rides. Other times it means two hour sorties with 20-minute climbs and hunting for prey. Depends on my mood.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2011, 07:41:41 PM »
No, it has nothing to do with terminal speed or structure durability. It simply means he can't outclimb out turn or outmanuver the opponent, the only traditional tactic left is to dive away. Which he can do and pick up some speed (opening a gap). Given time the enemy will close that gap in the long-term. It will allow an immediate escape but if the enemy is persistent he won't get away.

Define long term. 2mins? 5 mins? 10? Not a chance in church a 110 can most of the planes it will enccounter for 10 mins, even if it somehow dove from 6k to 0k. 2 mins is probably the maxiumum against most opponents (exceptions been extremly poor diving planes, and planes close to it in speed).

The most common LW rides it will face, such as 190's, P51's, Typhoons, F4U's, etc, will be able to keep with a 110 in a dive or even catch it in one, and will have a considerable speed advantage on the level. I would give the 110 pilot about 45 seconds before he starts either taking chance pings, or less for some planes.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2011, 10:44:59 PM »
5 guys run to their field because they are not above me?  :rolleyes:
That's a shame too because five guys is plenty to overcome a BnZ from a single opponent.  If I work really hard and fast I might keep two guys E below me if I start with an altitude advantage.  Five?  There is no way some of them aren't going to get the space to build more E than I have, particularly given that I am having to spend E to keep their buddies defensive.
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Offline ink

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2011, 11:09:03 PM »
That's a shame too because five guys is plenty to overcome a BnZ from a single opponent.  If I work really hard and fast I might keep two guys E below me if I start with an altitude advantage.  Five?  There is no way some of them aren't going to get the space to build more E than I have, particularly given that I am having to spend E to keep their buddies defensive.

I like that kinda fight, I guess I have become an ALT Monkey :D

I come in at about 15-20 k depending on the nme...I love looking down and seeing nothing but red guys...20 - 30 cons...and then rolling into the one guy that don't see ya :t

 a lot of more often now, I try to fly smarter and attack the one that attacks me but keep suppressing the others.

Offline Karnak

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2011, 11:29:40 PM »
I like that kinda fight, I guess I have become an ALT Monkey :D

I come in at about 15-20 k depending on the nme...I love looking down and seeing nothing but red guys...20 - 30 cons...and then rolling into the one guy that don't see ya :t

 a lot of more often now, I try to fly smarter and attack the one that attacks me but keep suppressing the others.
Exactly.  However, it is also a challenge of team work on the part of the other guys to overcome you, and those five who had the numbers to do so didn't even try.  It is potentially a good fight for both sides, if both side show up to fight.
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2011, 12:55:20 AM »
Its a matter of power available versus power required (aka specific excess power).  Power required takes into account higher drag of one aircraft in the comparison, because all the drag components affect the amount of power required to perform whatever maneuver you want.  So, if both aircraft have equal power required numbers, but one has greater power available, then there's a maneuvering advantage.  Similarly, two aircraft could have equal power available, but different power required numbers, and there would be a maneuvering advantage.  Sometimes the difference needs to be large to have a conspicuous effect, sometimes a small difference can be decisive--just depends on the aircraft involved.  Some simplifications here, but hopefully you get the point.

Now, higher wing area at the same weight can reduce power required, but a larger wing can create more drag, which could increase the power required.  The biggest reasons Spits, La-7s, etc. have such great performance is because regardless (to an extent) of how hard you maneuver them, they either keep a decent reserve of excess power, or can quickly create it.  To a lesser extent, you can include aircraft like the 109K4 and F4U4.
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Offline ink

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2011, 01:47:19 AM »
Exactly.  However, it is also a challenge of team work on the part of the other guys to overcome you, and those five who had the numbers to do so didn't even try.  It is potentially a good fight for both sides, if both side show up to fight.

that's exactly what I am saying :salute

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2011, 05:15:28 AM »
Ink, what plane do you normally fly? A 110 would need massive E over its opponents to hold multiple cons at bay. It's fairly easy in 109's and 38's (at higher alts)...
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2011, 05:24:26 AM »
I like that kinda fight, I guess I have become an ALT Monkey :D

I come in at about 15-20 k depending on the nme...

That's a common way of following Dicta Boelcke's rule no 1.


...and then rolling into the one guy that don't see ya :t

That's a classic advantage to exploit.
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Offline DMVIAGRA

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2011, 06:30:25 AM »
Wasn't there a worry about P-38 pilots bailing out of the cock-pit?

Offline nrshida

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2011, 06:46:12 AM »
"The truth is, that is it no easier or harder to bail out of the thirty eight, than it is to bail out of any single engine fighter":-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HbmQLcDUI

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Offline icepac

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Re: Bf 110 vs P-38
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2011, 09:07:19 AM »
This is where you don't want to be in a 110.

I did get the P38 I chased two sectors to this mess and it would have been a few more as I raked many important parts off of planes in this crowd before a combination of field ack and a tempest removed my wing.

Sadly, I was nose down and at low altitude so my plane encountered terra before the planes I damaged.

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« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:13:45 AM by icepac »