Cirrus SR22 Crash Texas

[xNOVAx]

Hey wolf,

That makes sense. I was just curious because I'm finishing up my license in a citabria, and we did simulated emergencies last weekend so I had that on my mind. Obviously you know this, but in that airplane if you have an emergency you have no other way to get down other than to maintain flyable airspeed. That struck a chord with me to pay special attention to preparing for an emergency situation, and was wondering if knowing you had a chute allowed for any short cutting on the part of the pilot.

[Wolfala]

Wolf, one of the Cirrus articles I read stated the Cirrus is "nearly impossible to recover from a spin". Is that true?

Buster,

I could say 100% BS, but it'd be more entertaining for you to fwd the test report to those authors.



http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/582392/download.aspx

[Wolfala]

Hey wolf,

That makes sense. I was just curious because I'm finishing up my license in a citabria, and we did simulated emergencies last weekend so I had that on my mind. Obviously you know this, but in that airplane if you have an emergency you have no other way to get down other than to maintain flyable airspeed. That struck a chord with me to pay special attention to preparing for an emergency situation, and was wondering if knowing you had a chute allowed for any short cutting on the part of the pilot.

In short, no. You still have the demonstrate to the PTS standards since you are being given a license to fly everything, not just 1 type. But that does not mean that it'd be smart to stick a 22 driver in a Grumman T-cat or Mooney 201. Either one of those will kill you in different ways.

But here's an example. Engine fire 5k to the deck. Which is faster - emergency descent with a chute pull at 1000, or maneuvering to landing. Keeping in mind, this is a 13000 ft runway i'm doing this on. Watch and learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EE9jqIxQe4

[xNOVAx]

In short, no. You still have the demonstrate to the PTS standards since you are being given a license to fly everything, not just 1 type. But that does not mean that it'd be smart to stick a 22 driver in a Grumman T-cat or Mooney 201. Either one of those will kill you in different ways.

But here's an example. Engine fire 5k to the deck. Which is faster - emergency descent with a chute pull at 1000, or maneuvering to landing. Keeping in mind, this is a 13000 ft runway i'm doing this on. Watch and learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EE9jqIxQe4

Love your videos man.. thanks for posting.   

[eagl]

Reading the test report, it does state that if the correct spin recovery procedure is not immediately and correctly applied, then the spin could become unrecoverable.  That's not very friendly behavior for any aircraft, but on balance the stall and spin resistant nature of the aircraft and the presence of the ballistic chute recovery system makes up for it.  As noted, less than 1% of all mishaps in their sample were low altitude spins where the chute wouldn't work, and a very low percentage of mishaps were high altitude spin entries.  So it looks like they targeted the flight characteristics to combat both inadvertent stall/spin scenarios, and stall/spin entries due to abusive flight control inputs, and then took the position that rather than give the idiot pilot who spun the spin-resistant aircraft a procedure that must be immediately applied correctly the first time, that idiot pilot has a big handle to pull.  In either case, the airframe is going to be wrecked, but pulling the chute will usually save the occupants where riding the spin into the ground is invariably fatal.

It's hard to fault the manufacturer...  I think their line of reasoning in the certification paperwork and mishap analysis is reasonable.  Heck, the T-37 spin recovery procedure is almost identical to the SR22 spin recovery procedure, and it takes a whole lot of training to be comfortable entering and exiting spins in a predictable fashion.

[eagl]

From the report:

ii.  Results. The aircraft recovered within one turn in all cases examined. Recovery controls
were to reduce power, neutralize ailerons, apply full rudder opposite to spin, and to apply
immediate full forward (nose down) pitch control. Altitude loss from spin entry to
recovery ranged from 1,200 – 1,800 feet. Detail results can be found in the above
referenced reports.
iii. Comments. No spin matrix less than that prescribed in AC23-8A or AC23-15, can
determine that all configurations are recoverable. It must be assumed that the SR20 has
some unrecoverable characteristics. In the SR20 proper execution of recovery control
movements is necessary to affect recovery, and aircraft may become unrecoverable with
incorrect control inputs.

Bold text emphasized by me, not the report.

[Shuffler]

A spin in any aircraft can become unrecoverable with incorrect inputs.


That may be their "don't spill hot coffee on yourself" quote.

[eagl]

A spin in any aircraft can become unrecoverable with incorrect inputs.

Not really...  Unless your "unrecoverable" definition is not the same as mine.  I assume "unrecoverable" means that no matter how much altitude you have, it is aerodynamically impossible to recover.  Every one of the 9 aircraft I've flown both privately and professionally, from TG-6A motorglider to F-15E, are "recoverable" from spins, given enough altitude.  You can't put them into unrecoverable spins.  You can aggravate the spin to the point where recovery may take an excessive amount of altitude, or you may structurally fail the aircraft entering, during, or exiting the spin, but they'll all stop spinning eventually if the spin recovery procedure is applied, no matter how aggravated the spin is.

Even the T-37, the whirling whistling training device of doom, can be recovered from ANY spin mode by applying the spin recovery procedure.  The only time I've heard of a crew having to deviate from the T-37 spin recovery procedure was in a plane that was either mis-rigged (tail bolted on wrong) or had a CG out of limits.

This cirrus is different, being more like marginally stable military aircraft like the F-104 and F-16 that have truly unrecoverable spin modes.  Those military aircraft have ejection seats, the cirrus has a big parachute.  Problem solved.  But not every aircraft has a spin mode that is unrecoverable, regardless of how the controls are applied or mis-applied.