Author Topic: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode  (Read 5673 times)

Offline Yeager

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 11:49:27 PM »
I believe either give everything F3 mode or give nothing F3 mode.  Its a matter of principle really.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2011, 12:32:28 AM »
just give it the same visibility as all the fighters, then no f3.


semp

I think that views in the game should have the visibility that the actual plane had, whatever that is.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 12:43:11 AM »
I think that views in the game should have the visibility that the actual plane had, whatever that is.

then I guess you also demand that the views on fighters be from the pilot sitting down only and not standing on the seat.  like it happens on some fighters.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline uptown

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2011, 01:12:54 AM »
I think no planes should have f3 mode.  People can look around by going to different gunner positions and get only the view physically available to people in the actual aircraft.
plus 1 . f3 for the training arena and filming only IMO. F3 mode isn't realistic. I'd like to have a flight sim as much like the real thing as possible.

I know AH is more of a war game then flight sim but I can only dream.
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Online Shane

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode - easy fix?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2011, 01:39:25 AM »
I was talking about this very thing the other day.

I think a good solution would be so that F3 is only available in a non-pilot position. This is what F3 represents, while the pilot is driving, the crew does the "looking."

Or more simply, disable F3 in pilot position.

Probably even suggested before and maybe answered, but I'm too lazy to use search atm.  :old:
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Offline danny37

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 01:43:18 AM »
just more whinning from people to want the game the way they want it.it is easy enough to kill an a20 like the il2....f3 was taken away from the il2 and now is hardly used because you cant see a damn thing in it.f3 was its only defense against fighters that dive past 10-15 other fighters just to go for an easy kill.do that to the a20 and it will be the same uselessness  as the il2 now.if thats the case then all bombers should have the f3  taken away.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 02:06:36 AM »
then I guess you also demand that the views on fighters be from the pilot sitting down only and not standing on the seat. 

Indeed -- I'd prefer whatever is the realistic view.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 02:09:53 AM »
Indeed -- I'd prefer whatever is the realistic view.

Agreed, take away the F3 view, we took it away from the IL-2, so make it fair and it away from the A20.
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Offline pervert

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2011, 02:21:14 AM »
Find it funny people talking about realism here, people getting owned by a il2 wasn't real but neither was 30 planes setting up a field for a score vulch, or for that matter being dead a few hundred times in a month thats not real, were do you draw the line?

Its a game at the end of the day, you should be able to see an opponent in a game. I always found the il2 crying situation to be unreal how did players get lazy enough to make the il2 such a problem to kill? From the op comments I take it people are using it as the IL2 used to be and you are unhappy that people using it can see you coming and maneuver to avoid you killing them??

Offline Chilli

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2011, 03:58:06 AM »
Is the A20 any different from the iL2, when it comes to the amount of dogfighting (both in RL and in AH2)?  Remarkably maneuverable in high G turns, crazy amount of ammo and basically already a preferred tool for bombing ground vehicles.  Why should it retain the F3 mode while iL2 with equally crappy F1 mode views (meant to add:  had F3 taken away)?



For all those who felt they needed to somehow insert a put down (humurous ones aside), I suggest that you actually read the original post, and respond to that, or build an arguement for or against.  Simply stating, "you must suck" as your response says nothing about your knowledge of history, flight modeling nor your comprehension of the comparison of AH2 A20 to iL2.

For those that were on topic, I was surprised at the number of responses that don't care for F3 mode.  One remark, in particular, insisting that A20s don't have a sustained climb rate, I would have to question their experience with attacking A20s.  It has been my experience that like most twin prop planes they are able to hold a pretty descent climb rate even at low speeds.  In addition, they roll in and out of high G turns rather seemlessly.  For those reasons, it put me in mind of the way that iL2s were used to get really effective overshoot kills after sustaining massive amounts of hits, and I ask why was F3 removed from the former attack aircraft and left available to this one?

True, as someone else posted here, the above maneuvering may be achieved in F1 mode, and I only point to the iL2 and ask what did HTC see differently there.  Was it bigger guns?  Because bigger guns does not always mean more potential damage.

Offline Noir

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2011, 04:22:09 AM »
what makes the A20 so resistant compared to other twin engined planes?
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Offline cobia38

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2011, 06:36:41 AM »

  my question for all you F3 whiners is this.....  when they take F3 away, and i still spank your LW uber monster,what will you use for an excuse then ?? 


 


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Offline mechanic

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 06:44:33 AM »
 :lol
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Offline hammer

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 07:09:27 AM »
One potential solution to the F3 debate might be to change the view system in planes with crews to allow a directional view to come from the position with the best view in that direction. For example, if you're flying a B-17 and want to look back, moving your hat to the rear view gives you the view from the rear gunner's seat. Down would be from the ball turret, etc etc. This eliminates the gamey aspects of F3 mode, limits views to what could be seen from any particular plane (no straight down from a 110), and still allows the pilot of a plane with a crew some (not all) of the advantages of having a crew observing from different positions.

The balance that has to be maintained is the SA advantage that a crew provides. In the bigger bombers like the 17, the crew provided almost instantaneous SA all around the bomber. Even F3 mode cannot match that. In a 2 person craft like the Bf 110 or Il-2, the rear gunner provides additional SA not available to a single seat plane, but less than F3 offers in game.

It only takes two movements of the finger to go from pilot position to gunner and back.  I never felt that it was at all difficult or slow.

I think even this small additional requirement turns what should be an advantage (extra eyes reporting) into a disadvantage (having to change positons and being limited in how you can maneuver while away from the pilot's seat).

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Hammer
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Offline IrishOne

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Re: Should A20 loose it's F3 mode
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 07:16:00 AM »
  my question for all you F3 whiners is this.....  when they take F3 away, and i still spank your LW uber monster,what will you use for an excuse then ?? 


 

it still won't touch my EW/MW "monster," F3 or not  :lol
-AoM-