Should A20 loose it's F3 mode

[titan312]

Remove it.  +1

[RTHolmes]

you cant just remove it because it goes some way to addressing the SA you get from multiple crew members. removing it would essentially be the same as modelling blindfolds for all the crew members and only allowing one to remove the blindfold at a time.

replace it with something more realistic, sure.

I cant see any reason at all to be able to shoot or drop bombs in F3 though (although I suspect hardly anyone does this.)


btw: if youre regularly losing dogfights to bombers, you need to get some training. and be thankful the guys who fly em alot dont prefer late war monsters as their usual ride ...

[crazyivan]

Take away the ability to shoot while in F3 mode.  That's the only change I think needs to be made.  It still allows the extra Situational Awareness that additional crew members would grant, but takes away the arcadey element of shooting while outside of the plane.

I like the idea of disabling the ability to fire in F3 . I fear doing away with with F3 views in the A20. My beloved Stuka, would be next on the chopping block. Like a previous statement above I'de be interested in a stuka with 20mms and no F3. As it is right now getting A2A kills in a stuka for me are sheets and giggles. With 20mms it could become a sport.

  to the A20 dogfighting tards

[Chilli]

I stopped reading at Loose.

Should A20 lose its F3 mode?  - Fixed
  Finally, an accurate criticism    Maybe I should "tighten" up my grammar 

Although not the fastest or longest-ranged in its class, the Douglas DB-7 series distinguished itself as a tough, dependable combat aircraft with an excellent reputation due to its speed and maneuverability. In a report to the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (AAEE) at RAF Boscombe Down, test pilots summed it up as "has no vices and is very easy to takeoff and land... The aeroplane represents a definite advantage in the design of flying controls... extremely pleasant to fly and manoeuvre."[1] Ex-pilots often consider it their favorite aircraft of the war due to the ability to toss it around like a fighter.[2] Its true impact was that the Douglas bomber/night fighter was extremely adaptable and found a role in every combat theater of the war and excelled as a true "pilot's aeroplane."[3]

Above quote from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-20_Havoc

you cant just remove it because it goes some way to addressing the SA you get from multiple crew members. removing it would essentially be the same as modelling blindfolds for all the crew members and only allowing one to remove the blindfold at a time.

replace it with something more realistic, sure.

I cant see any reason at all to be able to shoot or drop bombs in F3 though (although I suspect hardly anyone does this.)


btw: if youre regularly losing dogfights to bombers, you need to get some training. and be thankful the guys who fly em alot dont prefer late war monsters as their usual ride ...

RTHolmes, I find that folks here (including you) are missing my comparison to the iL2.  To use your own arguement for SA from multiple crewmen, the A20 had 3 crewmembers how many did the iL2 have?  Your assumption that hardly anyone uses F3 mode to gun, will have no proof for or against that arguement.  The only thing we have left is that it is available to track otherwise hidden attackers/ targets. 

As for me personally regularly losing to A20s, I avoid them like the plague.  I do on occassion go in to strafe one that is attacking friendlies, especially on an attempted base defense or capture.  So please don't make this about me complaining that someone else has a toy that I am jealous of.  I again ask, why did HTC decide to remove F3 from iL2s and leave it for A20s (add any other light/medium bomber-- SBD, TBM, D3A)?  And now to make it clearer I add this question, "What has the impact been on the number of iL2 sorties?"

As far as my suckage and need for training, that is a given.  I welcome any opportunity to join Rolex and FLS in another great session in the TA    It is possible that a change in approach in gunning for A20 might help, especially targeting wings as opposed to fuselage.  Good luck with that, squirmy  creatures that they are.

[Krusty]

Well... A while back I was in a P-39 and ran into a big base take attempt trying to hit one of the more secluded bases in the mountain ranges between countries in the LWA... I ended up bagging 4x A-20Gs and a few others I think (7 total landed). So clearly not everybody is abusing F3.

I don't think it's a rampant plague that needs addressing now, but as a general discussion of F3, I think what we need is this:


On planes with multiple crews, from the pilot's seat you can hit and HOLD the view direction you want to save a custom viewpoint, then WHILE holding that view direction you can jump to gunner positions (don't let go of the key!) and save that. Then when you are flying and hit that view, you will "see" from your gunner position while still flying, BUT you only have that range of view motion that is allowed.

It just simulates the communication going on, but without adding F3 to the mix.

So a B-17 pilot might set their rear view to the ball gunner looking backward, for example, if he wants to keep an eye on his lower 6 o'clock. He might set his rear-left view to be from the left waist gun, because his copilot's seat blocks his view.

That's what I think would be the best middle ground. How HTC might implement this I don't know, but it would be cool.

[STEELE]

Should A20 loose it's F3 mode

Everybody cut loose,  Footloose, kick off your Sunday....
shoose?     

[RTHolmes]

I think what we need is this:


etc ...

thats exactly the way I would do it

[Slash27]

I stopped reading at Loose.

Well that just don't make no cents....er...since... scense...

[Krusty]

This topic dun R-U-N-N-O-F-T

[RTHolmes]

I should have also said: until theres a tweaked view system like krusty outlined imo A20s should keep F3 just as IL2s should have kept F3.

the bulkhead(s) between the pilot and gunner in these planes means the AH pilot without F3 cant get as good SA as the RL planes did with gunners and comms. the mossie and 110 dont need it because the pilot and gunner/navigator are under the same canopy so their views are pretty similar.

[Beefcake]

On the original post:

No, the A20 has enough crew members to warrant the use of F3 view. If you can't kill one it's not the A20's fault.


On the rest of this mess:

How about we leave F3 view as it is on the current bombers? There is nothing wrong with the system as it is now and I would rather HTC concentrate their efforts on giving us new bombers rather than making an arbitrary view system that would be just as a gamey as the one we have now.

[Stang]

Did cobia own someone repeatedly?  Lol

[SEraider]

-1

No way to view backwards.  F3 is a handicap for to rear views.

[Chilli]

Stang,

Who the heck is Cobia???  I wish that there was an age limit or IQ test for posters, (that went beyond grammar of course).

I keep reading BS about someone being owned.  Seriously, I thought adults played this GAME.  If you cannot comprehend a descent discussion about comparison between the iL2 and the A20 then please go along with your peanut butter and jelly fingers and troll somewhere else.

Topic:  Should A20 lose its F3 mode as did the iL2?  -- Fixed

[Brooke]

Cobia is excellent in A-20's (and other attack aircraft).

In fact, Cobia -- please fly with us Luftwaffe guys in Enemy Coast Ahead (the upcoming scenario starting mid November)!