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Author Topic: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?  (Read 2191 times)

Offline Scherf

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If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« on: October 26, 2011, 11:21:07 PM »
Rumour going about that the 50mm BK is verboten. Vicious lies and innuendo from the Yak Mafia or true?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 11:28:04 PM »
Quote from: Scherf on October 26, 2011, 11:21:07 PM
Rumour going about that the 50mm BK is verboten. Vicious lies and innuendo from the Yak Mafia or true?
Unknown.  Years ago Pyro expressed concern to me that if the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII were added the performance of the Mosquito coupled with the Molins 57mm gun would lead to bombers being sniped from beyond the range at which they could reply.


Go Me410!
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Offline MachFly

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 12:41:16 AM »
If it was used in WWII I see no reason why we should not get it.


Quote from: Karnak on October 26, 2011, 11:28:04 PM
Unknown.  Years ago Pyro expressed concern to me that if the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII were added the performance of the Mosquito coupled with the Molins 57mm gun would lead to bombers being sniped from beyond the range at which they could reply.

Why not just perk it?
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Offline bozon

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 04:31:48 AM »
Quote from: Karnak on October 26, 2011, 11:28:04 PM
Unknown.  Years ago Pyro expressed concern to me that if the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII were added the performance of the Mosquito coupled with the Molins 57mm gun would lead to bombers being sniped from beyond the range at which they could reply.
There is already a 75mm airborne gun in the game. The 57mm would be exactly the same except that the 7 and 5 figures are switched.
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Offline Greebo

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 04:55:12 AM »
The B-25H doesn't have the performance to be a threat to bombers though. The Mossie does and the 57mm would be more accurate too. Although personally I can't see why you'd need the 57mm anyway, if you can't kill a bomber with four nose mounted Hispanos there is something wrong with your gunnery. If I was a buff pilot the Mossie buff killer I'd be more worried about is the Mk 30. That still has the four Hispanos but has similar two stage Merlins to the Mossie Mk XVI bomber.

I recall reading somewhere that the 50mm on the 410 was considered a bit of a failure as an anti-buff gun though. It was intended to be able to shoot down bombers from outside their guns' effective range. However its effective range was not much better than the 20 or 30 mm guns and it had a slow rate of fire.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 05:05:47 AM by Greebo »
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Offline 33Vortex

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 05:28:24 AM »
Not to mention the limitations of weight, performance and ammo carried.
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Offline moot

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 06:41:58 AM »
Quote from: Greebo on October 27, 2011, 04:55:12 AM
I can't see why you'd need the 57mm anyway, if you can't kill a bomber with four nose mounted Hispanos there is something wrong with your gunnery.
Because you can use that same gunnery to kill from further out.

The arguments against these cannons probably don't apply.  The aim in AH is nothing as spoiled by all of those factors in reality like turbulence etc.
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Offline FLS

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 06:50:35 AM »
Quote from: Karnak on October 26, 2011, 11:28:04 PM
Unknown.  Years ago Pyro expressed concern to me that if the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII were added the performance of the Mosquito coupled with the Molins 57mm gun would lead to bombers being sniped from beyond the range at which they could reply.


Go Me410!

Bombers and weapons only going in one direction seems pretty normal.  I seem to recall something about fighters for defense. :devil
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Offline moot

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 07:32:12 AM »
And the Pyro rumour is false if it's the same as the old one.  Krusty repeated it a few years ago and Pyro all but explicitly said it was false - asked Krusty or anyone to show a quote backing it up and no one could.
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Offline Noir

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 08:59:03 AM »
Shemp claims that the 410 can do 385mph with the 50mm mounted, info or intox?
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Offline Krusty

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 09:11:47 AM »
Quote from: moot on October 27, 2011, 07:32:12 AM
And the Pyro rumour is false if it's the same as the old one.  Krusty repeated it a few years ago and Pyro all but explicitly said it was false - asked Krusty or anyone to show a quote backing it up and no one could.

Looking into it at the time, going from memory now, I believe there was a logical leap that if the molins was rejected, the larger BK5 would be rejected also, and somehow over the years perception came to be. Pyro wasn't really denying the subject matter, just that he had openly said something about it. The mystery persists.

I think the times and the environment have changed. If you recall before AH2, AH1 gunnery had a hit bubble (HTC denied this term, but whatever you want to call it) where 1.2k kills were the norm in every fight with Hispanos. Now we have much more realistic gunnery and I don't think they'd have as many issues as before.

Just my guess.
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Offline icepac

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 09:20:41 AM »
If we get 50mm 410, then we must get Bf 110G-4a/R1 with 3.7cm and the other planes that used this gun.
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Offline moot

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 09:24:08 AM »
Quote from: Noir on October 27, 2011, 08:59:03 AM
Shemp claims that the 410 can do 385mph with the 50mm mounted, info or intox?
I think I posted in some of the last threads the exact speed penalties for each loadout.  385 sounds like peak TAS, at altitude, and clean.  IIRC the big gun was a pretty big penalty, so I don't think 385 level is gonna happen with it.

Based on historical records anyway.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:27:26 AM by moot »
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Offline Krusty

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 09:25:58 AM »
Quote from: Noir on October 27, 2011, 08:59:03 AM
Shemp claims that the 410 can do 385mph with the 50mm mounted, info or intox?

The top speed clean was 388 (some say that's with racks, making 395-ish more accurate), and the BK5 removes 15km/h of top speed due to the drag from the barrel. Not much, at 9mph. This is because it was internal. It was, however, very heavy. It would affect handling and climb rate, for sure.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: If we get the 410, will we get the 50mm?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 09:27:05 AM »
Quote from: icepac on October 27, 2011, 09:20:41 AM
If we get 50mm 410, then we must get Bf 110G-4a/R1 with 3.7cm and the other planes that used this gun.

I don't think it ever carried such a gun.
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