New P-40's

[Megalodon]

Additional data on the P-40...

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/P40N-Flight%20Limits.pdf

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/P40E,K%20&%20N%20data.pdf

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/P40E%20vs%20N%20data.pdf

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/P40N%20RAAF%20A29-412%20&%20418%20Test.pdf

All from this website: http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/p40_data.htm

here is the subdirectory
http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/

 

[Widewing]

This is an interesting document. It describes combat units resetting maximum MAP to 66 inches (in some cases 70 inches), which generates as much as 1,770 hp in the Kittyhawk. Allison points out that while this may work well enough in the P-40E/Kittyhawk, it is not acceptable for the P-40K, P-40N, P-39N and P-39Q (-81, -83 and -85 engines listed in the document) due to higher intake temperatures with those engines. Reliability with the -39 and -73 engines had apparently been very good, despite the abuse.

I can only guess at the increase in performance associated with nearly 1,800 hp in a P-40, but I would imagine speeds in the 345-350 mph range at sea level, with substantial increase in climb rate. That would make for a formidable P-40.

http://www.raafwarbirds.org.au/targetvraaf/p40_archive/pdfs/Allison%201710-39%20abuse.pdf

[Tank-Ace]

I'm not quite so sure. Look at the boost in HP from the P-40C to the P-40N.  That large of an increase in hp only yields about a 25mph increase in level speed on the deck.


I think the P-40 had some serious drag issues that limited its speed.

[Widewing]

I'm not quite so sure. Look at the boost in HP from the P-40C to the P-40N.  That large of an increase in hp only yields about a 25mph increase in level speed on the deck.


I think the P-40 had some serious drag issues that limited its speed.

You think? The P-40E had a drag coefficient of .0242, which is about average for a WWII vintage fighter.

The P-40C had 1,040 hp at take off, the P-40E had 1,150 hp, and the heavier P-40N had 1,200 hp for take off. The N had a combat power rating of 1,360 hp. That's a relatively modest increase in power over many models. Another 400+ hp should result in at least 345 mph at sea level.

[Tank-Ace]

320 hp isn't inconsiderable. Boost the 109K4's engine by 320hp, and you would likely have something comperable to the Tempest.

Another 400hp would maybe kick it upto 330mph, but I doubt 345. The faster you go, the more drag there is, and the more power it takes to go even faster.

[STEELE]

The German flap speed chart for 109 says 109 can safely use up to 20 degrees of its infinetely adjustable flaps at speeds of 450 kph, which is 280mph!
Some P40 manuals say not to even start to raise flaps till you hit 160 when taking off!

[Ack-Ack]

Stumbled across this USAAF document on limitations to be observed while flying the P-40 that covers the E, K, M, and N models.

P-40 Limitations

ack-ack

[Krusty]

The German flap speed chart for 109 says 109 can safely use up to 20 degrees of its infinetely adjustable flaps at speeds of 450 kph, which is 280mph!
Some P40 manuals say not to even start to raise flaps till you hit 160 when taking off!

Again, the same old mis-representation...


The flaps could retract at any speed below that all day long. This 160 was for full load with a drop tank, and was to keep wet-behind-the-ear pilots from stalling out and crashing. It was doctrine based, not a limitation.

[Squire]

Its a speed restriction for lowering flaps. To full down. P-40 can lower them to full down right at 140 just like its supposed to.

Partial lowering is another can of worms.

Almost every fighter currently in Aces High that has variable flap settings (like the P-40) can drop partial (1/4-1/5 notch) flaps above 175 mph: Ki-61, Ki-84, A6M, 109, 190, 110, P-39, P38, P-51, P-47, C.202, C.205, F4U, F6F, F4F, Brewster, Yak-9T, Yak-9U, LA-5, LA-7, and Mosquito can all do it.

HTC has it correct. 

[Krusty]

Squire, read it again. He's talking about a retraction restriction (as in don't retract them slower than this speed) as part of the basis for what speed they can be deployed.

I would doubt pilots used it much [ed: on the P-40s]. With minimal motion the hydraulic pumps shot those flaps out full in a second. Trying to get any fine-tuning, or "combat turning" setting would be an exercise in optomism.

Some planes just didn't have combat flaps. Despite how this game models them as some wonder tool, they just were not as useful in WW2. I always thought the high-speed flap deployment on the previous generation P-40E was rather high.

Do we even have any one combat report or official manual stating P-40s used flaps for combat manuvering? If not we should just give them single-stage flaps like the Hurr1, right?

 



 

[Ack-Ack]

Its a speed restriction for lowering flaps. To full down. P-40 can lower them to full down right at 140 just like its supposed to.

Nowhere in the flight manuals or in that document I posted state that its the max speed for deployment of full flaps, the cautions clearly state do not lower flaps above 140mph IAS. 

ack-ack

[Baumer]

This is what Pyro stated in the other thread.

The data posted is not mutually exclusive.  Some planes will have a different max speed for deploying the flaps than the max speed for having the flaps down.  In AH we only have one speed per flap setting, so we have to bridge those differences as best we can.

[Squire]

(as in don't retract them slower than this speed)

No, it says "Maximum permissable speed" as in dont lower them faster than 140 mph IAS. Same as the Landing gear speed restriction "Maximum permissable speed" as in don't lower the gear faster than 170 mph IAS. Thats for either taking of, landing or level flight. Its a do-not-exceed speed.

Nowhere in the flight manuals or in that document I posted state that its the max speed for deployment of full flaps, the cautions clearly state do not lower flaps above 140mph IAS. 

...and nowhere in the flight manual does it state its referring to partial flaps. Lowering means lowering. To the down position. The 140 restriction for the down flaps is modelled in the game correctly.

Do we even have any one combat report or official manual stating P-40s used flaps for combat manuvering? If not we should just give them single-stage flaps like the Hurr1, right?

Why would they model the aircraft with single stage flaps when they didn't have them? sorry you have lost me there. Or is we just do that for certain planes that you don't like?

[Squire]

Was going to add re the flaps used in Aces High. I am all for having the flaps jam in the position they are in if and when the max speed restrictions modelled are exceeded. Im not a fan of the auto retracting flaps. With that modelled in the game you would quickly find many not dropping flaps all the time every time. Not just for the P-40...for all of them. Players would have to pay attention to IAS and actually be familiar with the various safety settings of the planes. Perhaps have an "ez mode" flight setting similar to auto trim that would enable newbies to fly them and the flaps would only deploy if the gear was lowered. If later they wanted to disable that in settings thats fine but then they are taking that step knowing that if they mess up their flaps will jam.

[Squire]

From the P-38 flight manual. "Wing flaps down" as in full down. No parsing words here I guess. "DOWN" doesn't require any complicated explanation to its multiple hidden meanings in english. Btw when the manuals say to retract gear is that full up? just wondering.

b. NORMAL LANDING

1. Tank selector valves to MAIN or RESERVE whichever contains the most fuel.

2. Mixture control AUTO-RICH.

3. Propeller levers to about 2600 rpm position.

4. Electric fuel pumps ON.

4a Check landing gear warning horn switch for ON.

5. Landing gear DOWN (not over 175 mph).

6. Pump the brake pedals a few minutes to ensure that brakes are working.

7. Wing flaps DOWN (not over 150 mph).