Dual Core Problem in recent AH versions.

[Lusche]

At some point earlier this year, I noticed a very notable reduction in framerates in certain situations, which forced me to reduce my quality settings quite drastically. At that time I attributed that to a possibly clogged up XP installation or whatever.
Flying B-17s offline today, my FR'S dropped almost to a screeching halt when shooting the guns. I checked my settings in AH and my system. But even a very clean boot with minimal processes running did change nothing.

I compared that with an older AH version I still had, 2.214 patch 4 from last year's October. Same plane, same map, same base, same (quite low) video settings. In the current AH version I had up to 75% lower framerates when firing the guns in the B-17 under similar circumstances.
And then I found something odd:

With the "old" AH version  perfmon shows that both cores of my AMD 64x2 are being utilized (AH was running fine this way since AH implemented the dual-core fix in 2.14 patch 6).
In the current version, only one core seems to be used, the second just firing up a bit when switching between AH & desktop. If that is actually what is happening, it would (for me) explain the sudden performance loss.
Unfortunately I can't tell exactly at which AH version after 2.214 the troubles started. Now that I think of it, another symptom of this problem arising at the same time was also a big hit on FR when bringing up the clipboard, something which hadn't been there before.


AMD 64x2 4200, 2GB ram
Win XP SP3
GT 9600 512 MB

compared versions: 2.214 patch 4 and 2.26 patch 3
identical settings (video8.cfg, world.cfg).
Tested both with and without custom sounds.

[Skuzzy]

It is actually not "troubles".  It is by design by AMD.  There was/is a problem with AMD multi-core CPU's which manifests as graphic problems, making the game unplayable.  This is an AMD specific design/compatibility problem.  AMD supplied a code fix to work around the problem.

The code fix does not allow the game to run on more than one core IF the CPU has the specific design issue we run into, or if another application is making use of a high resolution timer in the CPU.

The fix from AMD allows the game to run across all AMD CPU's without any problem.  There really is nothing we can do about it.  Intel CPU's do not have the problem.  It is just a design difference between Intel and AMD which bit AMD across several applications.

[Lusche]

I know of that AMD specific problem, having enough trouble with it before 2.146. It's just very frustrating that it has come back for no "apparent" reason and suddenly makes playing almost impossible. No new graphics had been introduced this year or such but now I'm running into single digit FR's even with much reduced settings. I'm simply wondering why it doesn't work any more.   

[Skuzzy]

AMD wrote the code which determines if the game can run on more than one core.  It is as it has been since it was included in the game.

Of course, the OS can also prevent the game from running on more than one core as well.

We really do not control how the thread management is done.  Outside the AMD provided code, it is up to the operating system as to how the threads are parsed to each core.

[BigR]

Lusche, this may help you.... http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=983781

If you are running XP, some of these things may help you out. The processor affinity setting helped me out sometimes when I was having problems with my AMD chips. That is detailed in section 4 of the link above. The code change in the game will probably make a lot of the other solutions in the thread useless, but maybe it will help you understand the issue better, or give you a jumping off point for more information.  I finally had to switch to Intel to fix my issues, because AH is the main game I play and it was driving me nuts. My AMD CPU played all other games perfectly fine, but since AH encountered so many problems with it, I had to switch.

The AMD patches originally helped me immensely in AH, but as soon as HTC implemented the new code, I started getting major problems again. Reading this thread put it all together for me. I never realized WHY it stopped working all of a sudden until you posted this.

[Lusche]

Thank you BigR!

What I found out so far:

I had dual core troubles with AH (and only AH) until 2.14 patch 6 :"Implemented a fix for AMD dual-core users that no longer requires the AMD dual core optimizer to be installed or the game to be run in Windows 98/ME compatibility mode.  If you are running the game in compatibility mode, we strongly suggest disabling that" From that point on, no compatibility mode necessary, no problems, both cores working.

Ironically it was this fix, which actually unfixed it for me:" Implemented a change that should fix the issue with AMD dual core processors and the spinning clipboard/instability issues that were handled by running in compatibility mode.  It should no longer be
necessary to run in compatibility mode if you were doing so previously." - AH 2.32 patch 2

So the patch to fix the dual core AMD problem my dual core AMD did not have anymore due to an earlier AH patch did "unfix" it. Since this patch, only one core is being utilized by AH.

Unfortunately I am not able to switch to Intel

[BigR]

Thank you BigR!

What I found out so far:

I had dual core troubles with AH (and only AH) until 2.14 patch 6 :"Implemented a fix for AMD dual-core users that no longer requires the AMD dual core optimizer to be installed or the game to be run in Windows 98/ME compatibility mode.  If you are running the game in compatibility mode, we strongly suggest disabling that" From that point on, no compatibility mode necessary, no problems, both cores working.

Ironically it was this fix, which actually unfixed it for me:" Implemented a change that should fix the issue with AMD dual core processors and the spinning clipboard/instability issues that were handled by running in compatibility mode.  It should no longer be
necessary to run in compatibility mode if you were doing so previously." - AH 2.32 patch 2

So the patch to fix the dual core AMD problem my dual core AMD did not have anymore due to an earlier AH patch did "unfix" it. Since this patch, only one core is being utilized by AH.

Unfortunately I am not able to switch to Intel

The processor affinity setting may work for you, especially if something else in windows is hogging Core 0 while AH is using it. You might want to try to uncheck core 0  for AH and see what happens. Im very curious to see if that helps at all in your frame rate test you mentioned earlier.

[Lusche]

The processor affinity setting may work for you, especially if something else in windows is hogging Core 0 while AH is using it. You might want to try to uncheck core 0  for AH and see what happens. Im very curious to see if that helps at all in your frame rate test you mentioned earlier.

No, it doesn't. I can't make it run on both cores, and that's the problem. The only change I manage to do is to assign it to the second core, but that does make things lot worse.

[Skuzzy]

The first fix was an attempt by us to correct the problem.  It did not work for a number of AMD CPU's.  The second fix came from AMD as a solution.  It seemed to have fixed 99% of the issues.  

As it is an AMD correction to a compatibilty problem between them and Intel, we really avoid touching that code.

One thing you might try.  Disable the auto-downloading of skins.

[Lusche]

One thing you might try.  Disable the background loading of skins.

Thank you for that hint. But that has not been enabled in the first place.  (And I openly admit would have been very astonished if that would had made AH using 2 cores. )

I have turned down eye candy until almost no more candy has been left, toyed around with "disable" weapon effects and so on. While some things do of course have some impact on FR, it's seems simply to be a problem of the CPU being overloaded, particularly when a lot of shooting is done. (I currently run my tests offline by gunning in a B-17, which can drop my FR to single digits.)

I may be able to upgrade my CPU next year, but I can't get away from AMD. Do newer AMD (Athlon 4, Phenom II) have similar issues?

[BigR]

Thank you for that hint. But that has not been enabled in the first place.  (And I openly admit would have been very astonished if that would had made AH using 2 cores. )

I have turned down eye candy until almost no more candy has been left, toyed around with "disable" weapon effects and so on. While some things do of course have some impact on FR, it's seems simply to be a problem of the CPU being overloaded, particularly when a lot of shooting is done. (I currently run my tests offline by gunning in a B-17, which can drop my FR to single digits.)

I may be able to upgrade my CPU next year, but I can't get away from AMD. Do newer AMD (Athlon 4, Phenom II) have similar issues?

Newer AMD chips do have the exact same issue, but if you get one that is fast enough, it should have enough raw power in a single core to play the game without a problem. I had a PhenomII 955 and it still encountered the issue sometimes. I had a second monitor, and was able to witness the core get maxed out during gameplay.

[Tigger29]

I'm sooo glad I have an Intel processor...

[gyrene81]

someone around here is running a quad core 3rd gen amd phenom cpu and the game uses two cores...just can't remember who it is... 

[Lusche]

Newer AMD chips do have the exact same issue, but if you get one that is fast enough, it should have enough raw power in a single core to play the game without a problem. I had a PhenomII 955 and it still encountered the issue sometimes. I had a second monitor, and was able to witness the core get maxed out during gameplay.

Max out per se isn't that bad in my book, and of course I don't expect to keep my FR over the years with the same processor. I don't have the best GPU anyway
It's just going from 60 to 8 during a fight that's totally unacceptable. Before 2.32 p2 the lowest I had in my B-17 gunnery test was ~32, which is manageable.

I don't have choice anyway. Have to keep my current mobo. 

[BigR]

Max out per se isn't that bad in my book, and of course I don't expect to keep my FR over the years with the same processor. I don't have the best GPU anyway
It's just going from 60 to 8 during a fight that's totally unacceptable. Before 2.32 p2 the lowest I had in my B-17 gunnery test was ~32, which is manageable.

I don't have choice anyway. Have to keep my current mobo. 

The fastest duel core chip for socket 939 is the Athlon 64 FX-60. That was the fastest 939 socket chip ever made. The problem is that it still goes for super high prices for some reason. The average price on ebay right now is upwards of $160.00 USD. Newer AMD chips than yours use Socket AM2, AM3 and AM3+.