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Author Topic: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?  (Read 3729 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »
Holy crap!!! The luft-pilots are gonna have fun with this one.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2011, 06:27:45 PM »
I've sent Pyro some of my stuff which has the odd bit of ballistics info, MK 103s will absolutely rule IMHO. Me 410 at FTH with 103s in the hands of someone who can shoot is going to be deadly. As in "ZAP! Thanks for playing."

RLM didn't favour the BK 5 too much due to its weight and low rate of fire. They liked 2x108s best, low weight high RoF, though I'm not sure that was ever mounted on a 410.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2011, 07:30:38 PM »
Quote from: Pyro on November 09, 2011, 02:04:55 PM
I've seen a number of pictures of 410's with the BK 5 mounted but no scope.


 I'll counter that with I've seen plenty of pictures of Mk103 armed 410's with the telescopic sight! :neener:


   Have pity on us with poor eyesight!! :D   TBH I'm just happy to see the 410 finally being added to the hanger,cant wait for those twin 30mm of LUV!!!!



   Now can we see about adding the 6pounder to the mossie MkVI,that would make it a MkXVIII,the gun and about 600 pounds of extra weight.



     :salute
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Offline Scherf

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2011, 09:06:39 PM »
^ Don't forget the additional 900 pounds of armour plate which was also added to the XVIII around the cockpit and engines.

Don't go hunting no hi-alt buffs in a Tse-Tse. It will be asthmatic at best, and you'll have to snipe the pilot, as the shells were solid shot.
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline moot

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2011, 04:57:26 AM »
Quote from: Scherf on November 09, 2011, 06:27:45 PM
I've sent Pyro some of my stuff which has the odd bit of ballistics info, MK 103s will absolutely rule IMHO. Me 410 at FTH with 103s in the hands of someone who can shoot is going to be deadly. As in "ZAP! Thanks for playing."

RLM didn't favour the BK 5 too much due to its weight and low rate of fire. They liked 2x108s best, low weight high RoF, though I'm not sure that was ever mounted on a 410.
Galland said he wanted 4x108.  While that wasn't in the cards in the near term, he favored the BK5.  The BK5 turned out to be unpracticable, but you might guess at his preference by considering that his demands were for 50% 103 and 50% BK5 daytime Me410s.  On another note, IIRC in these same meetings they commented that it was good to have these guns (or either the BK5/MK103, cant recall) and the 6x20mm configurations in flight at same time, for direct comparison.  Unsurprisingly (when you see how pilots apparently shot at things - walked bullets to target - according to period guncams) the 6x20 was the most user friendly.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2011, 04:53:32 PM »
Quote from: Lusche on November 09, 2011, 05:53:12 AM
The easiest way would be to skip the BK5 loadout. No need to model the telescopic sight, and less risk of 2k sniping on buffs  :noid
(But if this really would happen, there would still enough reason for buffs to fear the 410... MK 103 anybody?   :devil)

*grabs his pitchfork and lights his torch*

... O' really?  And I suppose next you'll think further development of the 190s in this game will never be necessary.  That hurts Lusche.  :cry


Edit:  Maybe not initialy, but if/when a periscope feature gets added to Ar234s, that added ability might tie in well with a 410 scope feature/addition at the same time.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 05:00:49 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2011, 05:52:18 PM »
Quote from: Babalonian on November 10, 2011, 04:53:32 PM
Edit:  Maybe not initialy, but if/when a periscope feature gets added to Ar234s, that added ability might tie in well with a 410 scope feature/addition at the same time.
Why would the Ar234 need that?  When it gets remodeled the guns should be removed.
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Offline DMVIAGRA

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2011, 06:00:41 PM »


Jee, I dunno....
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Offline Krusty

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2011, 06:08:02 PM »
The A-10 has nothing to do with the Me410. False comparison.


Bab, see Karnak's reply  :O He's right!
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Offline Charge

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2011, 04:54:12 AM »
"The A-10 has nothing to do with the Me410."

Well actually... if you compare the cannon in A-10 to MK103 they are pretty similar in performance except for RoF...  ;)

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Offline titanic3

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2011, 08:39:52 AM »
Quote from: Charge on November 11, 2011, 04:54:12 AM
"The A-10 has nothing to do with the Me410."

Well actually... if you compare the cannon in A-10 to MK103 they are pretty similar in performance except for RoF...  ;)

-C+

Not even close. There's a 50 year gap between the two.
Armor Penetration, ballistics, intended use, type of ammunition used, and like you said, rate of fire.
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Offline Charge

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2011, 09:39:10 AM »
Hispano 20mm/GAU-8/MK103

AP projectile weight (grams): 165 / 425 / 355
Muzzle velocity: 775 / 988 / 960
Joules: 49500 / 208129 / 164122

Armour penetration is better for GAU due to DU core but there is really no difference in ballistic properties and AP is AP now and was back then and it was made to penetrate armour.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/FGww2APcarts1e.jpg

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/30mm%20cannon.htm

-C+
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2011, 02:13:33 PM »
Really, all the Germans needed to do was up the shell weight a bit, and give it a slightly larger proppelent charge, and they would have had an extermly effective tank buster when firing PzGr. 40 ammunition.
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Quote from: Arlo on April 28, 2014, 06:25:38 PM
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Wmaker

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2011, 03:20:22 PM »
The MK103 installation is quite heavy. The guns and 200 rounds of ammo alone weigh roughly 1000lbs and that's before counting the supporting fixtures and the other hardware.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: was the 410 50mm ever used for tank busting?
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM »
Quote from: Charge on November 11, 2011, 09:39:10 AM
Hispano 20mm/GAU-8/MK103

AP projectile weight (grams): 165 / 425 / 355
Muzzle velocity: 775 / 988 / 960
Joules: 49500 / 208129 / 164122

Armour penetration is better for GAU due to DU core but there is really no difference in ballistic properties and AP is AP now and was back then and it was made to penetrate armour.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/FGww2APcarts1e.jpg

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/30mm%20cannon.htm

-C+

Where'd you get the Hispano's muzzle velocity of 775?  I've always seen 880m/sec and once 860m/sec for the Mk II.
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