Author Topic: A Few Thoughts About Realism  (Read 1780 times)

Offline Melvin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2797
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2011, 07:11:26 AM »
ok, i was just wondering why you mentioned the damaged gauges. i don't personally think it would be any different than the canopy getting splashed with oil every single time the engine gets hit. would be a bit of a challenge trying to rtb with the altimeter or air speed indicator inoperable, but no worse than having a pilot wound.

a progressive damage system would be nice to have depending on how it was implemented. how does htc determine component damage/failure now, is it damage points or something else?

Wasn't HTC supposed to be using the WWI damage system as a test bed that would be implemented into WWII? Call me crazy, but it seems to have been pushed to the wayside for the moment.  :headscratch:

  :lol

Hmm it sounds as if somebody wants to hold the conch.

(Image removed from quote.)

That's funny.  :lol  :aok
See Rule #4

Offline Myg

  • aka Torquila (PNG)
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 236
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2011, 07:23:40 AM »
Yea, cool reference bro.  :aok

"That could promote an elitist atmosphere which could divide the community more that it is now"

Atleast that elitist atmosphere wouldn't degrade the newbie community as much as it is now if we had a system like that. Elitist people need to feel like they are special and have stuff set apart for them "only", so it gives the newbies what they want and allows the elitists to enjoy their squalour  :lol

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6911
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2011, 08:10:19 AM »
I'm trying to understand the mindset of some pilots who campaign for realism in flight, gunnery, and damage modeling yet they rarely fly with the same realism they demand from the sim.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2011, 08:37:53 AM »
Most who argue for realism either argue for things that aren't actually realistic (most engine management requests) or are selectively realistic.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Dichotomy

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12386
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2011, 08:56:45 AM »
Hitech told me what to do for more 'realism' once.  Strangely I can't get my room that hot or that cold and I'm not going to sit on a 55 gallon can of av gas and light the fuse if I get shot down.   :devil
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline Melvin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2797
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2011, 09:00:18 AM »
Hitech told me what to do for more 'realism' once.  Strangely I can't get my room that hot or that cold and I'm not going to sit on a 55 gallon can of av gas and light the fuse if I get shot down.   :devil

 :rofl :rofl

Yeah, when I bail out the wife makes me stand in the corner for 20 minutes. She also gets quite aggravated when I pee in my flight suit during long hops.
See Rule #4

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2011, 09:14:00 AM »
Atleast that elitist atmosphere wouldn't degrade the newbie community as much as it is now if we had a system like that. Elitist people need to feel like they are special and have stuff set apart for them "only", so it gives the newbies what they want and allows the elitists to enjoy their squalour  :lol


Actually I think the veteran players are quite helpful to new players for the most part.  You will always have a certain amount of hazing... just the nature of gaming and sport.  Especially when you add a military twist to it.  

But yes.. there are some who are just "iceholes".  They will always be iceholes, doesnt matter if you are new or not.... because that is just their nature.  Squelch is a wonderful tool.  :D

***G3-MF***

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2011, 09:19:46 AM »
You can add realism on your own...

Open all of the windows and turn off the heat in winter, or strip naked and turn the A/C down to the coldest temperature with a fan blowing on you. That might give you some idea as to the temperature inside an aircraft at high altitude.

Drink a 2 liter bottle of water before you play, that way you can simulate the need to pee during long missions.

Don't get up from your seat, no matter what.

To simulate g forces, get someone in need of diet to sit on your lap when you maneuver your fighter.

Inasmuch as you really don't experience fear in the game, hire a programmer to write a script that reformats your hard drive in the event of your cartoon death.

You can do all of this and more and HTC can concentrate their resources on adding to the game.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Bizman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9582
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2011, 09:27:29 AM »
I've been around for over 10 years, which would most likely qualify me to the "Higher level arena". The problem is, I still can't fly or fight. And I know there are pilots who do better than I have ever done right from the start. So, instead of getting my moments of success with some new guy, I'd end up being the boring easy kill for the elite. Yippee ki-yay  :huh
Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

Kotisivuni

Offline IrishOne

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1529
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2011, 09:36:32 AM »
Inasmuch as you really don't experience fear in the game, hire a programmer to write a script that reformats your hard drive in the event of your cartoon death.

 :rofl :rofl :rofl
-AoM-

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17859
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2011, 09:50:31 AM »
I'm against anything that might help split the community any more than it is already. HTC has to walk a very thin line when it comes to this question. On one hand they have to asked themselves "will this idea add anything to the game?", on the other hand they have to ask themselves "how will this effect the community, and with that the subscriptions?"

The gauges idea was mentioned. To me,will it add anything to the game? No. I've played long enough that I can tell with in a few MPH how fast my plane is, alt is only a comparison between you and the "other guy", or the ground. To a new guy, well it may mean alot and take away from the fun NOT knowing those things that are instinctive to a long time player. He's playing at a disadvantage already (skill wise) lets make him blind too  :rolleyes: So no I don't think damaged gauges would be worth the time and effort, nor would it really add anything to the game. The only chance it has is if Hiteck thinks it's "cool".

The same goes for a lot of other ideas. Strat is a great game function, but it can't be too debilitating because it take away the "fun" for one team. If you take away the fun from one team those players are either going to switch side (wouldn't it be great if we were ALL on the same team!!! We could roll the map in an hour!!), or they would get fed up and cancel their subscriptions (a big no-no as far as HTC is concerned).

I think the "suggestions" thread is a good idea as it gives people a place to add input, as well as giving HTC a place to get ideas. What may start out as a really stupid suggestion may turn into a good idea once tweaked a whole lot.

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6166
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2011, 10:16:57 AM »
The "perfect balance" is in the eye of the beholder, really. There is no such thing.  Anything other than the hard stats of the aircraft and gv's are completely arbitrary.  I understand the supposed desire to usher players towards combat, but with the radar bars and allied "dots" given it cant really be any more obvious as to where to find a battle. My biggest issue is that HTC has kept the exact same values on some otherwise very arbitrary settings.  

There are a lot of small things that HTC could do that would add immersion that would not take away "game play". I'll touch on a few-  

Why does it take the same amount of ordnance to destroy a reinforced concrete ammo bunker as compared to plywood built barracks???  Why does a very large bomber hanger take the same amount of ordnance to destroy as the 1/10th the size VH??? Radars mast should almost be immune to AP rounds.  Why are there not about 4-5 different hardness setting for town buildings? Having to take 312 lbs of ordnance to destroy each and every town building makes for a lot of questions.  The smaller town buildings should be easier to destroy and the larger buildings should be more difficult, logical reasoning yes?      


In the case of the icon debate, I think the 6000 yard aircraft icon is fine in terms of friendly/foe, however for the icon to identify exactly what it is being seen is a bit much.  Think about it, 6000 yards away and we can tell if it is a Spitfire, TBM, 109, F4U, A6M, or Yak.  At 6000 yards away the human eye can barely see the dot let alone any contours or other identifying markings, etc.  Granted the communications radio chatter would be alive and that would help identify friend or foe before any markings would be seen, but still. If HTC went to a icon of "1ENG" (for 1 engine), "2ENG", and so forth then we'd still get the friend/for at 6000 yards, but not the total gimme AH currently has. At 2000-3000 yards or so then perhaps switch the icon to the identifier icon.
With regards to the icon ranges for GV's, I'd like to see HTC go to a very generic icon and have the ranges reduced.  Even more so than the air to air 6000 yard identifier, the 2000 air to ground icon identifier should be reduced in 2 ways, imo.  First, reduce it down to from 2000 yards to 1200-1500 yards.  Then, add in a generic identifier for all "tanks" with an absolute identifier of the exact tank model at a range of 400-600 yards.  It would be similar to the M3 we currently have, it could be the transport, the TD, or the M16 variant.  We only know it is the M16 at a reduced range and that is good (I dont remember the range in which the M16 is separated from the M3). Now do that will all gv's, separate them in to 2 initial categories: tracked or wheeled.            

F3 mode should not be applied to a class of aircraft like it currently is to the bombers (anything that can be scored as "bomber" automatically gets F3 ability). That system is no different than saying "all cows have 4 legs", which anyone with any knowledge of wildlife knows that is simply not true. The F3 mode would be far better served if it was applied a set of criteria based on gunner positions, number of engines, or what ever. Someone explain the reasoning behind the Mossi B Mk 16 having F3 view, the Mossi FB Mk 6 not having it, and the Bf110 not having it. The Mossi variants have the exact same visual ability and the 110 has a rear gunner. I applauded very loudly when HTC removed the F3 capability from the IL-2, but with that move it appears that the F3 view is solely tied to the bomber class because of how it was coded and not some criteria. What a shame. I hope this is an issue HTC continues to deal with because rubber stamping is not good.

Another immersion factor that could be added is a tiered ordnance system.  Since the 100-250 lb class of bombs are not used at all, or at best very rarely, why not allow those small ordnance to be available all the time? First ord bunker down = no 1000 lb and bigger bombs available (including torps).  Second ord bunker = no 500 lb bombs or rockets available. 3rd bunker = no further effect. 4th = no ordnance available.  Small fields would always have ordnance, and the large fields would probably have ordnance available always as well because who is going to spend the extra time to remove the 100-250 lb ord ability when they could instead go after another target?  For fuel, add another penalty tier, the %75 is hardly an afterthought for players so there is really no benefit in even attacking fuel tanks.  Barracks??? The all or none is another area in which HTC could make more dynamic and improve immersion.  First, give the C47 the ultimate in troop carrying ability.  Give it 16 or more troops (it could actually carry 28).  The LVT2 could carry 18 troops, so why not give it 12 in AH? The M3 carried 10 troops in the real deal and also in AH, a good fit. The SdKfz 251 according to 1 source says 10 passenger and another says 12.  So 10 is also a good fit.  The jeep can carry 3 troops, seems logical.  So where is the immersion factor in asking for more troops to be carried??? More MG fire at the map room.  If the C47 can drop off 16+ paras, then a simple burst to get 1 para from a defender wont stop the capture.  If an LVT can carry 14+ marines, then a simple burst from a defender or the lone fighter racing to the rescue wont save the day. The M3 and 251 wont change and neither will the jeep.  Also, if there is a tiered troops delivery system, then there is room to add in a tiered penalty system to destroyed barracks.

... wow... I'll stop there.   :aok      

Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline lunatic1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2795
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2011, 11:08:58 AM »
i've been playing this game for three years or so,WHY can't people just like this game as it is,they ask for more  realism,getting blood all over my canopy  seems pretty real to me as a game--esp the longer you fly the more u pass out..the fuel and oil leak streaming out of the plane seems real esp when you run out fuel or your engine locks up--and if you hit buttons ctrl+d tells you what damage your plane has suffered.instruments--lets see-if u look outside of canopy you can see the ground and guess how high u r.speed--if u r damaged u r not probably going as fast now as u were.and depending on distance u probably won't make it anyway. or a red dot will finish you off.we had tues night titanic for a long time,then all of a sudden people started gripping about it,for one reason or another.it went away.then they tried an off hours arena.the help the european and asia players due to time zone.poof it went away.now we have a 24-7 ma that can hold at least 600 players..htc is making improvements all the time,they r thinking about making improvement's all the time hence{wish wist} i like the game the way it is.as long as we keep playing this game improvements will be made as nessacery.there may come a time when htc will get tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints.close up shop..you know that everyone at htc is smart enough AND has the talent to get any job they want in the computer and electronics  world any time they want.if there is a wish to be made--it should be a few new maps added to the rotation.and a arena for just the upper crust super pilots and gv'ers is a very bad idea<---gv'ers because u can't have one without the other--and i would guess it would be a very boring place to be.my thoughts only have a nice day>
C.O. of the 173rd Guardian Angels---Don't fire until you can see the whites of their eyes...Major devereux(The Battle Of Wake Island-1941.
R.I.P.49GRIN/GRIN-R.I.P. WWHISKEY R.I.P WIZZY R.I.P.

Offline lunatic1

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2795
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 11:56:09 AM »
ahaaaa want a realism problem--just occured to me,yours or his/her's parachutes open eveytime--you can jump out of your plane 100--1000 times--or hech for ever and your parachute will open every single cotten picken time.what r the odds that there where never any parachute failures in WWII allied or axis--and i don't think the japaneese used chutes.i think it would have been very low--but personally go down with my ship 99.99% of the time anyway..i think it would be funny has hel.just because this is a game<---off to the wishlist.  :salute
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 12:11:48 PM by lunatic1 »
C.O. of the 173rd Guardian Angels---Don't fire until you can see the whites of their eyes...Major devereux(The Battle Of Wake Island-1941.
R.I.P.49GRIN/GRIN-R.I.P. WWHISKEY R.I.P WIZZY R.I.P.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: A Few Thoughts About Realism
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2011, 12:09:27 PM »
and i don't think the japaneese used chutes.i think it would have been very low--off to the wish list. :salute

They were supposed to, but some didn't carry them in order to lighten the aircraft even more.  It was against orders when they did that though. Japanese command recognized that retaining some of its trained men was more important than hewing to the most extreme Bushido stuff.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-