Teh Hordez

[Tank-Ace]

Yes, they are. As long as people think they did good, it doesn't matter to them if really they're incompetent.

[The Jekyll]

I remember Dredger missions from years back when the horde's struck fast and there wasn't enough time to complain about the horde. Maybe therein lies the difference that we take longer to pwn a base due to the changes at the town. I don't think that there is more hording abound, but that the horde's now last longer thus giving more time to complain.  IMHO

[BaldEagl]

There was only 2 defenders at this base, actually only one person upped in a plane, I got out in a wirbl seconds before the VH went down.

Overall I counted 37 mustangs, 2 N1ks, 1 C47s, 2 sets of Lancasters, 2 Me109s and a 262.

Explain where this is anything remotely historical? This is a video game and clearly the mentality is to simply overwhelm the defenders so bad to the point nobody can defend period.

Frankly I don't care, let em pay $15 to attack undefended bases all day, eventually people will realize kamikazing into hangers isn't all that fun and actually want to learn to tank/dogfight.

Who am I kiddin, horde away.

I'm sorry but your picture ONLY shows Mustangs with ONE N1K nor did you explain the circumstances.

You posted a picture like "oohh, look at all the mustangs... it must be a horde".  Frankly it could have been anything.  If you're trying to make a point make it.  In this case clearly a picture wasn't worth 1000 words.

[Rob52240]

I'm not trying to be a smart alec but why do we only have complaints about strike fighter hordes and not hordes of bombers/escorts?

The infamous Ghi posted a massive mission once to intercept a huge mission of B-29s back when they were pretty new.  We took Jug-Ms and Ta 152s up to 40k to intercept and it took forever.  Once the superfortresses were near us we dove in to intercept.   We shot up a couple of them but nearly everyone compressed in their dives regardless of how shallow.  I don't remember any complaining on either side even though they made our strats and HQ their squeakes.

I also think it's poor sportsmanship to gain satisfaction purely from the lack of fun that the enemy must be having.  What I want most is a challenge, what I want 2nd most is to accomplish my objective.  What I want 3rd most is no annoying squeakers in my missions (I'm not calling all squeakers annoying).

At the end of the day we're all in the same community and we should act like it when we play.  I'm starting to get back into the just for fun type missions where we bring in as many lancs as possible noe with no escort and hit a field as hard as we can.  I want to bring back the old big D3A1 raids too because it's fun getting 20 assists and out turning anything they fight back with.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBpC3JMcGo

Good luck to everyone who plays nice.

[wil3ur]

I put up a JU87 mission a few weeks back, had about 18 takers w/ no escorts.  We flattened the base and a good part of town before we were decimated.  You should have seen all the M3's rolling hoping for an easy base take thinking we were the standard horde mission.

Next time I'll try and Deack with the 87 guys! 

[ink]

Butchers pic is a perfect exmple of what i said.
Pony mission, high, big numbers. How can you defend against it?
1: up a couple 109Ks, lalas or some fast birds. Its a fail, they will BnZ you like crazy or escape to friends/home when you get position on them
2: set up a counter-fighter sweep and come with alt. Its usually a fail (takes too long time, they can still run hom), but at least it has a very minor chance of success.
3: 262. This wont solve anything. Takes a little time to get there, 262s are very easy to dodge when the cons arent on the deck, also all of them will try to ho you...  not much fun trying to avoid 15-30 ho attempts in 10 seconds..
Now what?

get above them in a top ride and work your way down, only way to really fight the hoards with any bit of success.

[EVZ]

Those that like flying in hordes, or as you say, team efforts, just simply can't kill or stay alive on their own, and their only way to achieve any success is to group up and mob inanimate objects.

If I see a big horde, I'm gonna grab a temp or a jet and go to work on you nancy's.

I think we agree ... I just find it to be justifiable, educational, and enjoyable behavior. Those who prey upon the horde keep participation in it interesting and add to the less capable pilots learning process. I should also note that there is usually a core of some pretty good pilots leading these missions ... And they DO occassionally knock down some pretty skilled preadators ... Now and then a gigantic furball evolves and attracts LOTS of participation that can go on for quite some time ... People are playing the game and having fun ... isn't that WHY we are here? Personally, I have learned how to deal with 262s and I note they REALLY tend to avoid any HO or Possible Passing Shots ... Know what I mean?  And -OH-SO-COOL to watch those perk points spiralling in !

The elitists who find the GROUPS -UNDESIRABLE- are just punching their own tickets and want the game structured to suit their own agenda. SOME of them do propose interesting alternatives, and  that's just one more POSITIVE thing the HORDE accomplishs. 

[SmokinLoon]

The best thing HTC could do is figure out how to encourage game play without promoting 30v1 odds.  There are 100's of ideas out there and I'm sure HTC knows of most of them. 

The horde is a product of wanting to be a "winnah", regardless of an individual's actual contribution.  The bad thing is that the entire Aces High system is designed around attacking or defending and actual airfield.  There is no neutral ground to battle over.  There are no towns (think Bastogne), strategic plateaus (think Kursk), or island (think Guadalcanal), to do battle over, around, or on.  Everything centers around a base.  So when the horde arrives at a field, there is no battle because there is no chance to defend it.  The importance is to take that field.  Just how often did the battles happen directly over an enemy base?  More often than not it was an engagement.

The horde is quickly becoming a huge downer to a lot of people, me included.  It is worse now than it has ever been, and I've been playing since Jan of '08.  I remember lots of smaller capture missions in to a town with 8-12 attacking aircraft, that wasnt too hard to defend.  First, the field was not leveled.  Secondly, the odds didnt seem to be 20+v1.       

IMO, HTC needs to rethink a lot of things.  Hardness of OBJ (concrete ord bunker and playwood barracks are the same? Huge bomber hangers are the same as small motor pools?), ENY values of aircraft, perhaps tweeking the town setting (remove the flag!!!), burn rates, HE damage from tanks, high speed heavy bombers (need a max speed for level bombing), etc etc.     

[Lusche]

perhaps tweeking the town setting (remove the flag!!!)

Which, for reasons I have explained earlier, has exactly the opposite effect you are apparently looking for.

[Guppy35]

I'm sorry but your picture ONLY shows Mustangs with ONE N1K nor did you explain the circumstances.

You posted a picture like "oohh, look at all the mustangs... it must be a horde".  Frankly it could have been anything.  If you're trying to make a point make it.  In this case clearly a picture wasn't worth 1000 words.

This one if from a while ago.  Not 51s, but it prompted a Spit VIII for me as getting up in a 38 was going to be impossible.  Note the tracers going past me too.  I think there were 2-3 of us to oppose this

[Oldman731]

This one if from a while ago.  Not 51s, but it prompted a Spit VIII for me as getting up in a 38 was going to be impossible.  Note the tracers going past me too.  I think there were 2-3 of us to oppose this

Spitdweeb.

- oldman

[Guppy35]

Spitdweeb.

- oldman

Spit Vb dweeb right now  thank you!

[oTRALFZo]

Many dynamics play into what others percieve to be a horde. Question is..Would you really want to control it and would the solution just bring up another set of problems?

I have no issues with guys that want to post missions and get something going, Although one or two a night can be fun, after a while even that gets repetetive. Going against to intercept missions were fun too (Thanks Thundregg and 91st for those memories).

What I see is the big problem is that most of the mission planning mentality is that a majority of players decide to stick to a certain portion of a map for a long period of time. Mission planners then see this as a way to exploit other portions of the map that are less defended. The long debate of the NOE smash grab from what I see is gone (thank god), but what your seeing is that most of the armchair Napoleons now  know where and when to exploit, knowing that a good percentage of players already involved in their portion of the map, are NOT going to bail out and help defend knowing it will probably be too late if they do.

What I think is hysterical are the small percentage of mission godesses that plan these gaggles and hang behind or deep inside the #s using the new players as bait or hangar warriors for their own amusement.

[SmokinLoon]

I'm not trying to be a smart alec but why do we only have complaints about strike fighter hordes and not hordes of bombers/escorts?

The infamous Ghi posted a massive mission once to intercept a huge mission of B-29s back when they were pretty new.  We took Jug-Ms and Ta 152s up to 40k to intercept and it took forever.  Once the superfortresses were near us we dove in to intercept.   We shot up a couple of them but nearly everyone compressed in their dives regardless of how shallow.  I don't remember any complaining on either side even though they made our strats and HQ their squeakes.

I also think it's poor sportsmanship to gain satisfaction purely from the lack of fun that the enemy must be having.  What I want most is a challenge, what I want 2nd most is to accomplish my objective.  What I want 3rd most is no annoying squeakers in my missions (I'm not calling all squeakers annoying).

At the end of the day we're all in the same community and we should act like it when we play.  I'm starting to get back into the just for fun type missions where we bring in as many lancs as possible noe with no escort and hit a field as hard as we can.  I want to bring back the old big D3A1 raids too because it's fun getting 20 assists and out turning anything they fight back with.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBpC3JMcGo

Good luck to everyone who plays nice.

That is a completely different scenario.  That would be an engagement, not a horde in which can not be defended.  The B29's have a chance to defend, when there are 30v1 odds over a field... there is no chance to defend.

I think it is a bit ironic, dont you think, your last paragraph?  Living the by the Golden Rule isn't something that should just be spoken about, it should be acted upon.

[Changeup]

The horde:

Who cares?  Seriously????  The horde complainers fly like you can cash your points in....fellas....lol...kill them.  It's that simple.  Two things will happen when you up against the horde...you will get better with your SA and you will get better at your angles fights.

This is not the American Express Rewards Program!  You don't get TVs and fabulous vacations with your score points!!!