Author Topic: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!  (Read 1609 times)

Offline icepac

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2011, 04:16:54 PM »
Then cap's description of "grounded" includes every single electonic unit that uses power.

It's just not true.

Grounding Vref and having it not affect an ecu only applies to two wire sensor which are resisted to sensor ground from the 5v feed.........or 8v in the case of many chryslers which feature both 5v and 8v reference voltage lines.

In those cases, you will see the reference voltage being lower depending on how much resistence there is.

In a 3 wire sensor, the regulator works to keep the Vref at a constant 5v relative to sensor ground.

Like I said before, I've rebuilt thousands of ford ecus as well as supported all of the products of Standard Motor Products and Blue Streak.

This includes dpfe sensors and the ecus we receive when a mechanic with a bad DPFE sensor sends it in to us.

The reasons I was diagnosing these is a bit different from Tiggers experience because I was brought in after technicians had already spent considerable time diagnosing and had already thrown an ecu at the problem as if it were a magic bullet that would fix thier woes.

I did no brakes or anything else but diagnose electrical issues related to the products that blue streak and standard motor products sells.

In the case of shorted to ground dpfe and other sensors, we either saw an ecu that had no errors and tested good or found the 5v regulator burned out because it was trying to push 5v direct to ground.

I know the runtime algorithms and ecus down to each and every component.

Hell.....I wrote the test proceedures on the newer ford ecus as well as many sensors for standard and blue streak.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:43:25 PM by icepac »

Offline CAP1

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2011, 04:42:52 PM »
Then cap's description of "grounded" includes every single electonic unit that uses power.

It's just not true.

Grounding Vref and having it not affect an ecu only applies to two wire sensor which are resisted to sensor ground from the 5v lead.define "affect an ecu"

In those cases, you will see the reference voltage being lower depending on how much resistence there is.reference voltage is always the same. hence the term reference voltage. it gives the ecu something to reference against.

In a 3 wire sensor, the regulator works to keep the Vref at a constant 5v relative to sensor ground.it doesn't have to do as you describe here. if it did, then we'd always be looking for a 5v signal on the signal return. the 5v to the sensor in this situation is a constant 5v. the changes the current flow to ground based on pressure, and this is what signal return reads.

Like I said before, I've rebuilt thousands of ford ecus as well as supported all of the products of Standard Motor Products and Blue Streak.

This includes dpfe sensors and the ecus we receive when a mechanic with a bad DPFE sensor sends it in to us.

In the case of shorted to ground dpfe and other sensors, we either saw an ecu that had no errors and tested good or found the 5v regulator burned out because it was trying to push 5v direct to ground.

I the runtime algorithms and ecus down to each and every component.

Hell.....I wrote the test proceedures on the newer ford ecus as well as many sensors for standard and blue streak.show us some of the procedures you wrote.

Both of you are working from an experience disadvantage as compared to me. possibly....but........   :rofl :rofl

 i'm honestly starting to think you've mixed this up with something else. you've got a guy that has always been the one to get the diagnostic nightmares in any shop he's worked at for nearly 30 years, and another guy that's apparently gotten the same, including working for a dealer, which would give him more experience than me on those things.

 in all of my years, i have never once had to replace an ecu due to a dpfe failure. nor have i had a dpfe failure stop a car from running. i've seen maf, tps, cts and maps do this though.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2011, 04:54:05 PM »
Basic physics is on my side.

Your huge output of posts on each and every automotive subject does make you always correct......I just get fed up with refuting what basic physics and experience tells me is untrue and stop posting while you continue to pour out posts.


in all of my years, i have never once had to replace an ecu due to a dpfe failure. nor have i had a dpfe failure stop a car from running. i've seen maf, tps, cts and maps do this though.

How can you say that?   

In your diagram, both the DPFE sensor and the throttle position sensor share both the Vref and the sensor ground.

So what makes it possible for the throttle position sensor to cause a non-run situation while the DPFE can never cause the same no-run situation?

Offline CAP1

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2011, 05:28:43 PM »
Basic physics is on my side.

Your huge output of posts on each and every automotive subject does make you always correct......I just get fed up with refuting what basic physics and experience tells me is untrue and stop posting while you continue to pour out posts.


How can you say that?  

In your diagram, both the DPFE sensor and the throttle position sensor share both the Vref and the sensor ground.

So what makes it possible for the throttle position sensor to cause a non-run situation while the DPFE can never cause the same no-run situation?

 because without input from the tps, the ecu will often times have trouble knowing how to run the engine. the dpfe is not necessary to run, and therefore with or without input from it, the engine will continue to run, unaffected. i also mentioned that it was on older eec4 systems i'd seen the tps stop an engine from running.

 i did not say i am always right. i asked you to prove me wrong, and you have not done that as yet.

 oh yea......my output of posts will NEVER make me right. that's done with the grey matter between my ears.  :aok
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 05:30:28 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline icepac

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2011, 08:53:15 PM »
Please name me a car that won't run without a TPS signal.

Please tell me how a short to ground on the Vref that is divined from the same power supply as the one that runs the ecu will allow the unit to function.


You can't and I am not interested in reading a multi-post smokescreen.

You are arguing beyond your depth.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 08:57:41 PM by icepac »

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2011, 09:54:53 PM »
could you two just get a ruler and an interested woman to settle this contest please?  If you can't find an interested one I think Kim Kardashian is available
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline CAP1

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2011, 10:04:20 PM »
Please name me a car that won't run without a TPS signal.

Please tell me how a short to ground on the Vref that is divined from the same power supply as the one that runs the ecu will allow the unit to function.


You can't and I am not interested in reading a multi-post smokescreen.

You are arguing beyond your depth.
2.3 turbo coupe t-bird.

 the ecu runs on 12v. the 5v regulator drops the voltage down to 5v for the various sensor v-references. hence, it cannot short out the computer.

 i can and i just did.

 not yet i'm not.  :aok
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:10:59 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2011, 10:11:29 PM »
could you two just get a ruler and an interested woman to settle this contest please?  If you can't find an interested one I think Kim Kardashian is available

 :neener:
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Nice when Murphy's Law not a factor!
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2011, 10:13:43 PM »
You're tall enough for her.  Well you're human, I think.  Okay we'll settle for sentient.
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute