Air France 447 "What really happened"

[guncrasher]

you guys missed the part where the pilots thought that airplane's safety system would not allow a stall.  except something about when it gets disconnected which the pilots failed to realize till it was too late.  also they never realized one was pulling the stick up and the other pushing it down.

as sad as it is, out of every single airplane accident lessons are learned and safety improves a little more but in mho with every single new airplane safety lessons starts all over.


semp

[colmbo]

Here is a link showing the Airbus flight control laws.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Is there no stall buffet in an Airbus? No stick shaker?

- When CAS falls below 60 kt, the stall warning is inhibited (3rd interim report page 20). This may have contributed to the crew's confusion: while deeply stalled, no warning when the pilots are pulling on the sticks, but if they begin to push the nose down, the speed increases and AoA readings become valid again, triggering the stall warning

[Yeager]

I always feel uncomfortable in AB planes.  Prefer to avoid them for this very reason.  Too many lives have been lost due to this fly by wire automated control regime.  Its totally unnecessary, no good.

[Angus]

A force feedback stick certainly is no problem in AH.....
And they should have known how to detect the nose up attitude. As well as they knew that autopilot was disengaged.
Wouldnt want pilots with this slow-motion in a rough canyon-ride...

[PR3D4TOR]

Thing is they're still safer than the non-fly by wire airliners. Last time I checked the Airbus' had the best safety record of all airliners. No one had ever died in an A330 or 340 before Air France 447.

[FTJR]

Those glass cockpit and fancy autopilots mush the brains of pilots, the more glass time you have the less you react to basic airmanship. The worst F/Os we have on the Metros are the 2000h CFIs & 5000h+ jet/glass pilots 

I think by Worst you really mean, least experienced.

Back in the day when I got into airlines I was the most junior in terms of hours 3000 mostly pistion, and considered fortunate to be there, even then it was into a turbo prop. These days a lot of airlines the people in the right seat dont have any GA time expect for the basic licence. The only time you'll see experience is when there is a down turn and people lose their jobs.

Again, its training, not the plane.

[LCADolby]

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20025877/Nova_-_Air_France_447_(by_apapele182).avi
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3ZP5J0LN <- a very good BBC program that came out long before the NOVA version
Full episodes of the most likely cause.

[RufusLeaking]

- When CAS falls below 60 kt, the stall warning is inhibited (3rd interim report page 20). This may have contributed to the crew's confusion: while deeply stalled, no warning when the pilots are pulling on the sticks, but if they begin to push the nose down, the speed increases and AoA readings become valid again, triggering the stall warning

How about physically? There is no stall buffet?

Every plane (Cessna 152, Cessna 172, T-37, T-38, KC-135) in which I have approached stall, there was obvious shaking that got more intense as the air separation increased. I've heard of some planes with no or little buffet having artificial shakers on the controls. I'm not talking about a horn. I'm talking about physics.

[PR3D4TOR]

They were in a thunderstorm...

[RufusLeaking]

They were in a thunderstorm...

No one flies into a thunderstorm.  Was their radar out?

[Devil 505]

No one flies into a thunderstorm.  Was their radar out?

Did you read the link in the first post? They flew INTO the storm. That was the first of many mistakes made by the crew.

[Tupac]

In the Commanche 250 there isnt much of a buffet.

[clerick]

Did you read the link in the first post? They flew INTO the storm. That was the first of many mistakes made by the crew.

One expert speculated that there was a smaller cell that obscured the larger storm behind it. The pilots, not seeing the larger cell, made the ir choices based on the much smaller cell.

[Vulcan]

dumb question, why aren't the flight instruments augmented by GPS instrumentation? It might not be as accurate but it'd be an easy backup system.

Last flight I was on I was watching our progress on google maps (yes Wifi/3G was off, the maps were cached) on my Android tablet - I got alt, heading, airspeed, all very accurate. And my garmin GPS I use while hunting can get coverage under dense push, in gullies, in heavily overcast weather.