Collision Model

[Lusche]

see thats what i meant... he collides into me and i get the damage and he gets none... shouldn't both get it? i think they need to rework the model so both parties get the damage...

Again: Do you want to take damage from a collision that never happened on your screen at all? That's what you asking for. You will see enemy come at you, you evade him successfully, you see him passing at 100ft... and "boom" "you have collided".

and i think the way the FE(whatever that means) detects, is the way the lag is on both parties...

FE = front end, another way to say "your computer"

But you are right in a way - It depends on both player's connection how much their planes are "lagging" on each others FE, but that goes both ways. (the server is just relaying the data)

[des506]

well if thats case... i can take the fact that lag caused it and not complain further...and but what will get me pissed is the fact that he takes none and i get the damage...

[Lusche]

well if thats case... i can take the fact that lag caused it and not complain further...and but what will get me pissed is the fact that he takes none and i get the damage...

Of course it sucks, because it looks unfair, particularly your 'sitting on the runway' example.  But unfortunately that's the best possible solution, for each other method ("both take damage", "no collisions") would create even more problems. Way more. 

[des506]

Of course it sucks, because it looks unfair, particularly your 'sitting on the runway' example.  But unfortunately that's the best possible solution, for each other method ("both take damage", "no collisions") would create even more problems. Way more. 

pls explain in what way would it create more problems? a collision is a collision.... both planes take damage...

[Lusche]

pls explain in what way would it create more problems? a collision is a collision.... both planes take damage...

You seem to still mix it up.

A collision is not a collision. Due to the (unavoidable) lag, there is a different reality on each players screen. All the time. For everyone.

And that'S why it can happen, that you and me have a collision on MY screen, but there is none on YOUR screen. Do you want to take damage in this case? You evade my ram and still you get 'collision'? Do you really want it?


Look at this picture.




This is from the Thunderbolt pilot's view. See the "Lusche has collided with you" message at the bottom, and note that I never even touched his plane on his screen.
Now think you are the Thunderbolt pilot: You really want to take damage? You would not have any problems with going down by this?

Oh and by the way... that's how it looked like to me (Mustang)... exactly the same moment as on the screenshot above:

[des506]

for some reason i think i would like that... now lets change the scenario... put yourself on the runway.... you get banged... would you not want the other party to get at damage? so thats why i said i would prefer that both parties get damage... if i constantly have lag issues...i am always going to have this unfair collision msgs... are you telling me i should live with me always getting the collision msg? while the other flies away? collision damage to both parties is very viable no matter how and which direction you look at it.  and plus.... having the both party collision... you might have another option to bring down an enemy plane when your guns run dry.. is that not a good thing? i have many a times run out of bullets and still behind the six of someone less than 100 out... i could ram him before he kills my buddy...thats viable too... basically .. what i want to see is the damage to both parties irregardless of lag, or fairness.... thats a collision!

[Lusche]

for some reason i think i would like that...

I guarantee: You would not. You would clearly evade a ram attempt - and still get the collision. How would you even try to explain that to someone? "But there was no collision!"

Yes. A collision is when there is a collision. We do agree at that point. But that does also mean, when there is no collision, there is no collision. And that's how it works now


And just think how incredibly easy a ram would be: Each time I run into you (on my FE!), you go down... but you can't even evade it, because you wil almost never see it! Think about what this would mean for the gameplay.

Don't get stuck in the limited 'victim view'. Do not take an isolated, single incident and try to change the 'rules' without looking at the whole thing, all options, all situations, all possible effects.

Lusche out.

[des506]

i did dude... and thats why i say collision model to change to both parties..

[Karnak]

i did dude... and thats why i say collision model to change to both parties..

Then you don't understand it or the consequences of any of the other options.

First, you error in thinking in terms of "fault", like "He rear ended me!" or "He ran that stoplight!".  Don't.  That has no place.  He flew by you on his screen and never hit you.  On yours, due to the difference in position, he hit you.  Only you could have seen that coming collision to avoid it.  There is nothing he could have done to avoid it.  You would have him die for something he couldn't have avoided.

It is a completely non-viable setting.

[des506]

i still standby my current opinion... if  what you stated isn't fair to the other guy, wat about the guy who sits on runway and only he gets the collision? so thats why i say both parties get the damage...

[caldera]

i still standby my current opinion... if  what you stated isn't fair to the other guy, wat about the guy who sits on runway and only he gets the collision? so thats why i say both parties get the damage...

That happens a lot, huh?  I'm sure it wasn't the guns he was shooting at you that did the damage. 

The collision model is fair and was explained to you very clearly, you just don't want to understand it.

[des506]

That happens a lot, huh?  I'm sure it wasn't the guns he was shooting at you that did the damage. 

The collision model is fair and was explained to you very clearly, you just don't want to understand it.

you telling me i can't tell if its from bullets or collisions?

dun worry it will happen to you one day...

[FLS]

FE means "front end" and it refers to the player's computer. The collision model works like this. You get damaged if you have a collision on your computer regardless of who caused it. If you don't have a collision you don't get damaged. This is simple and fair. Some people don't understand this and they want players who didn't have a collision on their computer to get damaged by somebody else's collision on somebody else's computer. That would suck.

[Karnak]

i still standby my current opinion... if  what you stated isn't fair to the other guy, wat about the guy who sits on runway and only he gets the collision? so thats why i say both parties get the damage...

Only the guy on the runway could have avoided it.  It is 100% his fault.

[caldera]

you telling me i can't tell if its from bullets or collisions?

dun worry it will happen to you one day...

Why not acquire the film from the player who purportedly rammed you and post that along with yours.  That would clear things up.

Just how many times has this scenario happened to make you want to change a perfectly fair system?  Maybe a a few times in five plus years, I have been rammed while unable to avoid it and watched them fly off.  There was no collision on their FE, so how could they take damage?  99.99% of the time, collisions are your own fault. There is no better way for it to work.