Author Topic: Collision Model  (Read 22785 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #225 on: December 29, 2011, 05:01:26 PM »
:lol Of coarse it is wrong.  The equipment adds latency when processing the signals, but light does not "flow" slower than welll, light  :lol  HT may be good, but he is not that good.  Slowing down light is not that easy  :rofl
I could have used more precise terminology, but the gist of what I posted is correct.  Data is transmitted through the internet at something like 40% c.  Data is transmitted  via a mix of electrical and light based singles.  The reason for the data transmission rate being slower than c is electrical resistance and processing time at routers.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #226 on: December 29, 2011, 07:37:32 PM »
They do if the other player is in a plane.

ack-ack

I can confirm this..on both ends. I've collided with GVs when in a plane and had planes collide with me when in a GV.
But I have never collided with a plane while in a GV now had a GV collide with me when in a plane
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #227 on: December 29, 2011, 07:41:01 PM »
My own personal opinion on collisions is that for ity to occure it shoudl show up as a collision on both ends.
In other words if both sides see a collision then they collided. if only one side sees it then no collision occurred.

I seem to remember HT explaining why this cant or shouldnt be a couple of years ago. And the explanation seemed reasonable.

But still it does only seem fair particularly when I collide with someone behind me while going forward  LOL
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #228 on: December 29, 2011, 07:47:21 PM »
My own personal opinion on collisions is that for ity to occure it shoudl show up as a collision on both ends.
In other words if both sides see a collision then they collided. if only one side sees it then no collision occurred.

I seem to remember HT explaining why this cant or shouldnt be a couple of years ago. And the explanation seemed reasonable.

But still it does only seem fair particularly when I collide with someone behind me while going forward  LOL
It would result in people flying through their targets (particularly against bombers), guns blazing as there would almost never be a collision and you can't miss from 10ft.  Cannon armed birds would have to cease firing before arriving at the target or they would shoot themselves down.  Machine gun armed fighters could just blaze away all the way through though.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #229 on: December 29, 2011, 08:01:34 PM »

In other words if both sides see a collision then they collided. if only one side sees it then no collision occurred.


It's (almost?) impossible for them to both see the same collision.

Changing the modeling to reflect what you suggest would be the same as just getting rid of the collision model entirely.

As an example, a few years back a squadie and I were trying to land a fighter on top of a bomber while in flight in the TA or DA.  The bomber was just in auto-level, at a stable speed.  I'd fly up behind him and above him and match his speed, and then slowly settle down onto his back.  I was trying to hook my landing gear in front of his wing roots.  I figured that when my prop hit him it would bend and stop and I'd plunk right down into place.

In reality though, while I saw myself "hovering" on top of him, he still saw me "hovering" behind his tail.  When my wheels touched him (in my view), I'd break up and fall away.  From his perspective though, I'd break up and fall away while still behind him; he never saw me touch his plane, and he never took any damage.

We switched positions, and had the exact same result.  It looked like he was hovering in position behind me, and then he'd just break up and fall away.  I even saw the "smoke" come off his tires like it would if he'd touched down on the runway, even though from my perspective he never touched me (and I took no damage as a result).

The distance we were offset was the result of our combined lag, and since lag is time-related our offset distance was at it's minimum possible (we were flying at a matched, slow, speed, and at the same heading).  We were offset about 50yds or less.  Had we been flying high speed in opposite headings (head-on) our lag-related separation would have been maximized (he'd have seen himself more than 50yds from where I was seeing him).  Had we both been on high-speed connections our separation would have been less, but still not perfect (I was on 28K dial-up).

Essentially, we were doing our very best to make both of our planes "collide" in a controlled fashion, and found it impossible...  Only the guy in back took damage.  Had I zoomed under him with my fighter, and pulled up in front of him, I could have missed him on my end and caused him to die of a collision.  I could have flown up in front of his nose on my screen, while flying through his tail on his screen.

Because everyone has different lag, and because lag varies at times, it would be (almost?) impossible to learn (with any consistency)to effectively "ram" someone so that both players saw the collision.  If your opponent intentionally tries to ram you, you're pretty dang safe.  It's when he gets real close and then tries to avoid you where you'd have a higher likelihood of suffering a collision.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:06:21 PM by mtnman »
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Offline Hopper

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #230 on: December 29, 2011, 08:33:50 PM »
:bhead

Again...That is because on you're end you hit him, and on his end he avoided you.

Might want to read that again.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #231 on: December 29, 2011, 08:40:27 PM »
Might want to read that again.
You might want to read the thread again.  If they collide with you, they go down, if you collide with them you go down.  The problem most people have with this concept is that they are locked into an "at fault" conceptual view of collisions, as though we are discussing an auto collision in reality.  In Aces High terms, you rammed his nose with your tail.  He is not "at fault" like he rear ended you as, per him not going down, he never touched the image of your aircraft on his screen.
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Offline Hopper

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #232 on: December 29, 2011, 09:19:52 PM »
You might want to read the thread again.  If they collide with you, they go down, if you collide with them you go down.  The problem most people have with this concept is that they are locked into an "at fault" conceptual view of collisions, as though we are discussing an auto collision in reality.  In Aces High terms, you rammed his nose with your tail.  He is not "at fault" like he rear ended you as, per him not going down, he never touched the image of your aircraft on his screen.

You might try reading that again man.
 
I went down to bullets.  He flew off with a missing elevator, missing airleron, damaged engine, and my favorite damaged guns, ect.. after he collided with me.  I want the collider to go down no matter what.  That is my entire beef through out this thread.
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Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #233 on: December 29, 2011, 09:22:48 PM »
You might try reading that again man.
 
I went down to bullets.  He flew off with a missing elevator, missing airleron, damaged engine, and my favorite damaged guns, ect.. after he collided with me.  I want the collider to go down no matter what.  That is my entire beef through out this thread.


So an insta-pop on collision?  That seems like it would make the people who are already complaining about the collision model even more pissed of...
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Offline MK-84

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #234 on: December 29, 2011, 09:26:31 PM »
You might try reading that again man.
 
I went down to bullets.  He flew off with a missing elevator, missing airleron, damaged engine, and my favorite damaged guns, ect.. after he collided with me.  I want the collider to go down no matter what.  That is my entire beef through out this thread.


If you collide with another plane you take damage, that does not always mean the plane crashes, but it does mean it takes damage.  You feel the plane must always crash?

Offline Hopper

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #235 on: December 29, 2011, 09:32:08 PM »
If you collide with another plane you take damage, that does not always mean the plane crashes, but it does mean it takes damage.  You feel the plane must always crash?

Yep, I want consequences for being reckless.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #236 on: December 29, 2011, 09:36:00 PM »
You might try reading that again man.
 
I went down to bullets.  He flew off with a missing elevator, missing airleron, damaged engine, and my favorite damaged guns, ect.. after he collided with me.  I want the collider to go down no matter what.  That is my entire beef through out this thread.

Why?  If a P-38 has a close call and the number 1 prop strikes the other aircraft, why should the P-38 be destroyed and not just the number 1 engine?
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Offline MK-84

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #237 on: December 29, 2011, 09:42:49 PM »
Yep, I want consequences for being reckless.

There are consequences for colliding with another plane:

You take damage, sometimes this damages causes you to crash, sometimes it does not.

Offline mtnman

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #238 on: December 29, 2011, 09:54:53 PM »
Yep, I want consequences for being reckless.

There are.  If you collide you take damage.  If you don't collide, you don't.
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Offline des506

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Re: Collision Model
« Reply #239 on: December 30, 2011, 02:24:39 AM »
There are.  If you collide you take damage.  If you don't collide, you don't.

I beg to differ....how do you collide sitting stationary and only you got collision msg? lag between computers was the reason.....the problem now is the discrepancies between the time lag between computers, thats why we have so much trouble with this current model which makes it unfair for some. if somehow we made it so that no matter what the lag between computers is or what can you or what you can't see is...we still get the same result for both parties.

All i have heard from everyone here is that they do not want to change because they if they try to avoid a collision and they still get into accidents its unfair to them. what about people actually trying to collide into you cos they can't fly? and some how only you get collision msg? its no longer about what you can see or what you can't see on your FE. cos my collision sitting on runway came from the back of my plane.
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