Aces High and the Hard Drive

[Daubie]

How does Aces High function once loaded?

Does it operate solely off the hard drive and would a faster rpm hard drive (7200 rpm) be a better choice for the i7 family CPUs?  Or is it mostly operating within memory ram and or video ram or a bit of all three?

I was told by an IT guy, he not in to gaming, but networks, that a too slow hard drive would cause my i7-920 CPU  to idle, waiting for info if the hard drive was running too slow, and while idling, overheat. 

Also if an i7 series CPU is not adequately cooled, it will idle down to a slower speed.

I put a V8 supercooler on my Asus P6T Deluxe mb after using the Intel stock fan which ran too hot.  I now run about 39C at idle or a bit below.  With load about 50C.

Thoughts and answers by the guru types, please.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

How does Aces High function once loaded?

Does it operate solely off the hard drive and would a faster rpm hard drive (7200 rpm) be a better choice for the i7 family CPUs?  Or is it mostly operating within memory ram and or video ram or a bit of all three?

I was told by an IT guy, he not in to gaming, but networks, that a too slow hard drive would cause my i7-920 CPU  to idle, waiting for info if the hard drive was running too slow, and while idling, overheat.  

Also if an i7 series CPU is not adequately cooled, it will idle down to a slower speed.

I put a V8 supercooler on my Asus P6T Deluxe mb after using the Intel stock fan which ran too hot.  I now run about 39C at idle or a bit below.  With load about 50C.

Thoughts and answers by the guru types, please.

Judging from the things told by the IT guy he's not really an IT guy at all (well, or at least he's VERY specialized on networking). A faster spinning HD is generally better and faster when compared to equal size HD with lower rpm. The larger your HDD is, generally the faster it tends to be.

There is no reason whatsoever to use anything slower than 7200rpm disks in your desktop computer. SSD is the best option you can get.

That stuff that your friend said about the CPU waiting and overheating is total bogus. Intel cpu's reduce power usage whenever they idle automatically so your cpu will cool down if anything. Also, any recent Intel cpu has a built in function called throttling which will reduce the clock speed if the CPU overheats (it is not any special feature of i7 or i anything).

However unless you have something seriously wrong in your build, your CPU should never get so hot. Ever.

Aces High will run mostly from memory but it will occasionally load textures and whatnot from the HDD. So a fast HDD is a good thing to have - but it will not have any visible impact on your framerates in game, all it can do is reduce microlag hiccups when sounds and textures are loaded.

[BaldEagl]

There's a few things ar play here and your IT guy was partially correct.

First of all AH loads most texures into memory so a faster HD won't help much except in initially loading the game.  CPU, graphics card and memory are all more important however AH is also a 32 bit application and won't use more than 2 Gg of memory.

As far as your CPU there are two automatic thermal management systems and an optional one but any of the three can be turned off.  Intel Speedstep (optional) throttles back the CPU when loads decrease.  TM1 and TM2 throttle back, then eventually shut down the CPU when temeratures increase beyond specifications.  Notice that in all cases the CPU is slowing down.  This reduces required voltage to the CPU and thereby decreases temperatures, so an idling CPU will always run cooler than one under load.

BTW, your temps are just fine.  Although specifications are much higher I feel I'm ok as long as I'm under 60C and my overclocked Core2Duo runs about the same temps as yours.  When I was testing an overclock early on my CPU fan had come disconnected while flipping the case around.  As I result I walked in to find my CPU up to around 100C and the thermal managers hadn't shut it down yet although that's near the threshold.  It's been running fine for years afterward.

[zack1234]

Custom sounds and Hi res textures cause hiccups?

[Skuzzy]

Aces High does a lot of updates to config files while it runs.  Never, and I mean NEVER, run Aces High from an SSD.  Long term, it will hurt your SSD as those devices do not do well when an application constantly writes and updates lots of small files.

There will be those that come along stating they run the game from an SSD just fine.  Ask them how they are doing in a year.  IT WILL WREAK HAVOC with any current generation SSD.


Generally, a 7200RPM drive will give better game performance for loading, but it also helps for the writes.

[skribetm]

near instant access to timelines when using filmviewer is more than enough consideration for running AH on an ssd.
add to that the hundredfold reduction in latencies. but if you really prefer an HDD, get one with the bigger cache.
all apps in windows load like a dream too. no more waiting on a spinning hdd.

also, reads/writes occurs all the time, even when just browsing the internet(temp files).
ssd adoption 2 or 3 years ago would have come with glitches. (remember lack of trim/garbage cleaning?)
with win7, trim support is by default. and no more need for defragging too. ahci hotplugging is also an added useful feature.

if you dont trust ssd's that much yet, try a 32GB one, they come cheap nowadays.
it's more than enough for a dedicated win7 install(~18GB/64-bit version) + AH(w/ custom sounds/skins/maps/etc.)
if you use 32-bit win7, since AH is only 32-bit anyways, the install size is smaller, at ~14GB.
just back-up/clone/mirror your SSD regularly(i suggest mirroring the clean install, using win7's clone tool).
that way if your ssd fails, just use your backup while you warranty it.

1. zdnet
2. howtogeek

[Daubie]

Custom sounds and Hi res textures cause hiccups?

Off topic, but I do not do this as you also have noticed.  Fighters, bomber guns and Wirbles I run low resolution of 800x600 at 512 textures and do much better killing cons.

But if tanking I use my stock 23 inch resolution so I can see the tanks.  I have to come out of game and reset it.  The high texture pack I am sure would help the tank battle aspects of the game.  But I don't use the hires textures and I also do not add any skins but just use the default ones.  I try to run as lean as I can.  I need to thin out my processes and Alacrity should do it now that I am setup in a 32-bit operating system on my F: drive and not using Aces High on my 64-bit that is my C: drive.

I think the weak link in my setup is I need a better video card than the GTX 260, and I need a faster stock speed CPU. 

A year later and the GTX 580 video card is still $500 per card, times two if duo SLI. 

I still am trying to find the common denominator to my Aces High performance issues.  I think it is the limitation of my ISP and its DSL broadband.  I am a half mile from the switching station as to DSL.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

There will be those that come along stating they run the game from an SSD just fine.  Ask them how they are doing in a year.  IT WILL WREAK HAVOC with any current generation SSD.

With all due respect this sounds hard to believe considering that there are currently database service providers that have 50 000 consumer grade SSD's running 24/7 subjected to tiny writes. Are they replacing their drives annually?

Current SSD's have TRIM support and garbage collection and they're rated for 5 years of continous writes. The first generation SSD's did die fast though.

I'm sure there are already many players who ran their SSD with AH for a year now. Anyone care to give input?

[Skuzzy]

I have dealt with two customers,so far, who put AH on an SSD that had to move it to an HD due to errors starting to occur on the SSD.  I have another one who cannot run off the SSD at all without the game crashing.

In those circumstances, moving to the HD proved to be the solution.  

Everytime you start and end a sortie AH updates settings files.  There are many circumstances where AH has to update its settings.

There really is no benefit to running the game from an SSD.  The game pre-caches everything it needs.  When AH has to resort to a disk access to load a texture, if your HD is in good shape and you are not running a ton of background processes, there is no perceptible stutter anyway.

Once something is loaded into system RAM it stays there unless Windows runs out of resources.  It is just silly to load AH on an SSD and run the risk of problems with it.

The file viewer loads the entire film into system RAM as soon as you open it.  The films are pretty small files so any time you save there should hardly be measurable.  If it is, then there is something else wrong and the SSD is just masking it.


I could give a rats tushy if someone wants to beat up thier SSD.  All I can so is warn folks about the potential problems you are asking for.  If you chose to run AH on an SSD, and you do have problems, it is not because someone did not try to tell you.

[TequilaChaser]

I am only coming up on 6 months for my Crucial m4 128 Gig SSD

its rated endurance is 72 TB over 5 years  which equals  40 GBs a day for 5 years....... since the firmware rev 9 update its performance has increased a good bit with Crucial claiming seq Read @ 500MB/s ( mine is around 526 MB/s ) and seq Write @ 175 MB/s ( mine is around 248 MB/s )  on my AMD Phenom II 975 x4  build.....  with AH installed on the SSD

I have (2) of these same SSD's in RAID 0  on my i7-2600K  but I have not bothered to run any indepth tests in this raid setup.......... I did run them when it was just a single SSD, and got close to the same as with my AMD......

using Windows 7 64 bit, it has  GC ( Garbage Collection), Trim & SMART  abilities............ and I have not experienced any slow down as of yet...... ( I play more steadily on the Intel PC than I have on the AMD since July......  

now, I do recommend people doing a reboot more frequently than you might when using a old platter/disc  type  Hard Drive......

I currently have my AMD hooked into my 4 way KV switch with my old work PC and 2 other pc's all sharing same keyboard/mouse/monitor/speakers via USB/DVI  hookup cables...... )....  

will let y'all know in another 6 months or so how things are going....... if interested.....

edit:  I also must note that I do not play Aces high as FREQUENT as I used to do......... and for the majority of people I would probably suggest they install AH on a secondary data drive,  let their SSD be used as a booster for it....

TC   ( btw - I was aware that running AH on my SSD wouldput more wear / use on it faster, it was the 40 GB a day for 5 years endurance claim by Crucial that let me go ahead and decide to install Aces High on the SSD )

[skribetm]

there will always be failure rates when it comes to hardware.
i just replaced two hdd's too because their seagate 7200.10 firmwares were borked.

that doesn't mean i shouldnt use any hdd's anymore..

flash memory is the future.  if they are not reliable;
then maybe they should start recalling all those iphones, ipads, etc.
sd cards, usb sticks, a lot of current tech rely on flash memory.

even sensitive navigation and avionics rely on flash storage..

[skribetm]

btw, when it comes to the filmviewer;
i've experienced a whole lot faster system response when using the timeline/slider on an ssd vs. hdd.

ill try to post a video comparison later today.

[guncrasher]

How does Aces High function once loaded?

Does it operate solely off the hard drive and would a faster rpm hard drive (7200 rpm) be a better choice for the i7 family CPUs?  Or is it mostly operating within memory ram and or video ram or a bit of all three?

I was told by an IT guy, he not in to gaming, but networks, that a too slow hard drive would cause my i7-920 CPU  to idle, waiting for info if the hard drive was running too slow, and while idling, overheat. 

Also if an i7 series CPU is not adequately cooled, it will idle down to a slower speed.

I put a V8 supercooler on my Asus P6T Deluxe mb after using the Intel stock fan which ran too hot.  I now run about 39C at idle or a bit below.  With load about 50C.

Thoughts and answers by the guru types, please.

keep this in mind before it drives you nuts.  max temp for  i7 is 100c.  so anything below 70 is great, 50 is awesome.  as it also wont affect your other components.  video cards max temp also run at about 100.  now it is winter and when it gets cold in my room I remove the side window on my case and use it to warm my feet as I like to use my pedals barefooted.  my cpu normally runs around 40's and my dual hd's at about 65.  so dont be too concerned with temps unless they go above 80  .

semp


semp

[skribetm]

i've noticed for smaller recorded films(~5min?), filmviewer loads all required resources into memory and ceases disk access.
for larger (~25min) films, filmviewer continues to access the disk to load new resource files that come into the scene (skins, textures, sounds.)
average disk access latency in filmviewer is ~1ms, with 4ms tops for larger files.

1. use media player classic.
2. play this MKV file.

note the disk access rates/latencies for ahfilm.exe on the resource monitor window(upper right hand side of screen). 

will have to compare it to my 7200rpm hdd, or if anyone else can kindly do the same screencast for comparison.

[mipoikel]

I'm sure there are already many players who ran their SSD with AH for a year now. Anyone care to give input?

CORSAIR FORCE 120GB 2.5" SSD since february 2011. No problems so far with AH.