P-51H

[Karnak]

The fighter with the most complete coverage is the P-47, not the Bf109 or Spitfire.  How?  It is covering half the years that the Bf109 and Spitfire have to cover, so it has denser per year representation.

As to the P-51, what we need for better P-51 representation is not a completely unrepresentative P-51A, but rather the Allison engined P-51A (.50 cals, not 20mms) and A-36.  Add those two in and the P-51's coverage is complete.  For the Bf109 we need a Bf109G-6/AS to cover the gap between the Bf109G-6 and G-14 and to give a Bf109 that can fight at altitude and is earlier than the Oct. '44 Bf109K-4.  In the Spitfire line the only major gap is the lack of the Seafire Mk III.

[Pand]

There hasn't been a P-51 driver willing to mix it up since SkatSr stop playing.

ack-ack

SkatSr told me he quit playing because they kept nerfing the P-51 year after year.

[Karnak]

SkatSr told me he quit playing because they kept nerfing the P-51 year after year.

Bah.  That isn't true.  The P-51, along with some other aircraft, took a hit when flap modeling was redone.  There haven't been any changes since.

[Pand]

Bah.  That isn't true.  The P-51, along with some other aircraft, took a hit when flap modeling was redone.  There haven't been any changes since.

Bah.  Doesn't matter!  Sr was the best 51 stick I've ever flown with, and if he quit the game because he felt that way, I believe him.

[Butcher]

The fighter with the most complete coverage is the P-47, not the Bf109 or Spitfire.  How?  It is covering half the years that the Bf109 and Spitfire have to cover, so it has denser per year representation.

As to the P-51, what we need for better P-51 representation is not a completely unrepresentative P-51A, but rather the Allison engined P-51A (.50 cals, not 20mms) and A-36.  Add those two in and the P-51's coverage is complete.  For the Bf109 we need a Bf109G-6/AS to cover the gap between the Bf109G-6 and G-14 and to give a Bf109 that can fight at altitude and is earlier than the Oct. '44 Bf109K-4.  In the Spitfire line the only major gap is the lack of the Seafire Mk III.

Thats easy, just take 4x 50s and a pair of 500lb bombs, their's your A51 mustang (dont fly above 15k either).

[Chalenge]

Thats easy, just take 4x 50s and a pair of 500lb bombs, their's your A51 mustang (dont fly above 15k either).

Hardly.

The P-51 can only regain its alt by holding E in a non-aggressive climb. If it tries to match the vertical of a P-38 109K4 or any of the helicopter planes it loses badly. This is why it has the reputation of running when its really doing what it does best (i.e. kicking your butt out of the air).

Carry on.

[11Kenzy]

you guys underrated the P-51H! According to Wikipedia, it has a lot of improvements than the D version:
Compare!

P-51D:
General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
    Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
    Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m:tail wheel on ground, vertical propeller blade.)
    Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
    Empty weight: 7,635 lb (3,465 kg)
    Loaded weight: 9,200 lb (4,175 kg)
    Max takeoff weight: 12,100 lb (5,490 kg)
    Powerplant: 1 × Packard V-1650-7 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,490 hp (1,111 kW) at 3,000 rpm;[78] 1,720 hp (1,282 kW) at WEP
    Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0163
    Drag area: 3.80 ft² (0.35 m²)
    Aspect ratio: 5.83

Performance

    Maximum speed: 437 mph (703 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
    Cruise speed: 362 mph (580 km/h)
    Stall speed: 100 mph (160 km/h)
    Range: 1,650 mi (2,755 km) with external tanks
    Service ceiling: 41,900 ft (12,800 m)
    Rate of climb: 3,200 ft/min (16.3 m/s)
    Wing loading: 39 lb/ft² (192 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (300 W/kg)
    Lift-to-drag ratio: 14.6
    Recommended Mach limit 0.8

P-51H:
General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 33 ft 4 in (10.16 m)
    Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
    Height: 11 ft 1 in (3.38 m)
    Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
    Empty weight: 7,040 lb (3,195 kg)
    Loaded weight: 9,500 lb (4,310 kg)
    Max takeoff weight: 11,500 lb (5,215 kg)
    Powerplant: 1 × Packard V-1650-9 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,490 hp (1,111 kW) at 3,000 rpm, 2,220 hp (1,655 kW) at WEP[81]

Performance

    Maximum speed: 487 mph (784 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
    Range: 1,160 mi (1,865 km) with external tanks
    Service ceiling: 41,600 ft (12,700 m)
    Rate of climb: 3,300 ft/min (16.8 m/s)
    Wing loading: 40.4 lb/ft² (197.4 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.23 hp/lb (385 W/kg)

As I said, the P-51H has a lot of improvements over the D version. These improvements include the maximum speed, engine horsepower, empty and loaded weight are less, meaning that the fighter is lighter (rhymes), rate of climb, and maximum takeoff weight. Disadvantages are a few: maximum range is less 1,160 miles with external tanks, P-51H can only be loaded with 6 50-caliber machine guns (D version can be loaded with HVAR rockets and 1 bomb), and the wing loading on the P-51H is a little more than the D (with 40.4 lb/ft squared)

Regards,
Kenneth Jr. A P-51D lover

[MAINER]

you guys underrated the P-51H! According to Wikipedia, it has a lot of improvements than the D version:
Compare!

P-51D:
General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
    Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
    Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m:tail wheel on ground, vertical propeller blade.)
    Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
    Empty weight: 7,635 lb (3,465 kg)
    Loaded weight: 9,200 lb (4,175 kg)
    Max takeoff weight: 12,100 lb (5,490 kg)
    Powerplant: 1 × Packard V-1650-7 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,490 hp (1,111 kW) at 3,000 rpm;[78] 1,720 hp (1,282 kW) at WEP
    Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0163
    Drag area: 3.80 ft² (0.35 m²)
    Aspect ratio: 5.83

Performance

    Maximum speed: 437 mph (703 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
    Cruise speed: 362 mph (580 km/h)
    Stall speed: 100 mph (160 km/h)
    Range: 1,650 mi (2,755 km) with external tanks
    Service ceiling: 41,900 ft (12,800 m)
    Rate of climb: 3,200 ft/min (16.3 m/s)
    Wing loading: 39 lb/ft² (192 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (300 W/kg)
    Lift-to-drag ratio: 14.6
    Recommended Mach limit 0.8

P-51H:
General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 33 ft 4 in (10.16 m)
    Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
    Height: 11 ft 1 in (3.38 m)
    Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
    Empty weight: 7,040 lb (3,195 kg)
    Loaded weight: 9,500 lb (4,310 kg)
    Max takeoff weight: 11,500 lb (5,215 kg)
    Powerplant: 1 × Packard V-1650-9 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,490 hp (1,111 kW) at 3,000 rpm, 2,220 hp (1,655 kW) at WEP[81]

Performance

    Maximum speed: 487 mph (784 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
    Range: 1,160 mi (1,865 km) with external tanks
    Service ceiling: 41,600 ft (12,700 m)
    Rate of climb: 3,300 ft/min (16.8 m/s)
    Wing loading: 40.4 lb/ft² (197.4 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.23 hp/lb (385 W/kg)

As I said, the P-51H has a lot of improvements over the D version. These improvements include the maximum speed, engine horsepower, empty and loaded weight are less, meaning that the fighter is lighter (rhymes), rate of climb, and maximum takeoff weight. Disadvantages are a few: maximum range is less 1,160 miles with external tanks, P-51H can only be loaded with 6 50-caliber machine guns (D version can be loaded with HVAR rockets and 1 bomb), and the wing loading on the P-51H is a little more than the D (with 40.4 lb/ft squared)

Regards,
Kenneth Jr. A P-51D lover

Thanks for the info!

[JUGgler]

Bingo, Skat was a 51 Driver, sorry I couldn't remember him all these years, but he was unafraid to throw up a fight
regardless of the odds. I'd vote him and Rogent as the only 51 Drivers i can remember as "Dog fighters".

 Steve, GrmRpr, 0ldemon in days of yore.
Steves' gunnery (IMO was the best I've seen) made it so he didn't have to "dog fight" too often.
GrmRpr IMO possibly the best "all around" pony driver.
0ldemom could bend it the best and was the most aggressive.

Skat deffinitely paled in comparison but he was quite good none the less.



 Rogent is good but not at this level yet. Semp (when he chooses to) and Alfamega among others currently the "standard bearers" and are pretty good.




JUGgler

[Butcher]

you guys underrated the P-51H! According to Wikipedia, it has a lot of improvements than the D version:
Compare!

Never ever trust Wikipedia, sometimes it might be right, 99% it is wrong.

Oh and:
The P-51H was too late to see action in the war in Europe. By the late summer of 1945, some P-51Hs had been issued to a few operational units. These units were in the process of working up to operational status when the war in the Pacific ended with the Japanese surrender.

[Debrody]

OK
i want my Do-335/162 then. Would have made it to the front before the P-51H...
sillyness. Some aircraft just dont meet the criteria, doesnt matter how you twist it.

[Karnak]

OK
i want my Do-335/162 then. Would have made it to the front before the P-51H...
sillyness. Some aircraft just dont meet the criteria, doesnt matter how you twist it.

He162 does meet the criteria without any twisting.

[321BAR]

Actually it appears that we might eventually get this.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,325690.0.html

no we wont. this was before HTC had said no to planes which did not serve in combat

[321BAR]

There hasn't been a P-51 driver willing to mix it up since SkatSr stop playing.

ack-ack

when and where ackack? because im one of the few 51 drivers that will duke it out 3 vs 1 on the deck

[Vudu15]

I have to agree with the others if your lucky (like REALLY lucky) 1 in 10 pony's will stay and fight.....unless its a B they will generally fight.