Rewarding small-unit actions

[Tank-Ace]

I would love to know where the heck you got that extensive vocabulary of yours.

And I wasn't using the  out of context; I was simply showing that indeed, you had used that word.

I dunno about the last quote though... it was a little out of context, and now that I'm on the computer, not my phone, I can see what you ACTUALLY wrote. My apologies

I don't see where you're going with this. Yes, I used the word perversions, whats your point? I never denied using it, I never said we shouldn't. All I was doing was pointing out the giant gaping holes in his argument.

And the B-29 and La7? Complete non sequiturs. I've already said I don't think change is a perversion. I was simply saying that by his logic, any change is a perversion. It was implyed that either, by definition of the word perversion, everything new or different is a perversion, or none of it is a perversion just because its change, but that it could be a perversion based on the primary definition. And therefore the use of the word perversion in a negative context in this particular, specific, isolated (as in he is singleing out this specific thread) instance is inappropriate.

[B-17]

I'm SERIOUSLY confused now.

Count me out

[EVZ]

Theres a difference between giving people viable options in play style and 'forcing' them on people.

And then of course there is - LETTING THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT TO - .

Darbar is a longstanding game feature, that serves to inform players of the presence of groups of enemy and friendly aircraft, and their estimated strength. As far as I can remember, you've always been able to fly below darbar level.

Yes, as previously stated, Visual Observation requires LINE OF SIGHT. Below certain altitudes, Line of sight becomes limited and unreliable.

Since we don't know the rationale behind the darbar

You mean since you REFUSE to accept HTC's published explanation that it represents a country's Visual Observer Network? (see earlier post for a link to the HTC training program page.

However, if you insist that simple change is perversion (which you likely will)

Maybe you're catching on! I suppose we could make believe the Observers were all having a party and got drunk on duty, or were just ticked off at the boss, or were boffing the wife instead of watching for planes ... or ? hmmm do I feel another contest coming on ???

[guncrasher]

No, the purpose isn't to make small groups harder to find, its to make fighting in smaller groups equally or more effective than fighting in a big horde. If 5 people can do the same thing as 30 people, but do it faster, cleaner, and while keeping the field intact, then what are people going to start doing?

Like I said, those are just ballpark numbers, and can easily be adjusted. Or we could just pick a maximum number of players, and say that any group exceeding that limit will always display a darbar regardless of their altitude. But dot dar and base flashing would remain unchanged.

so you dont want 5 guys to show up on dar so they can quickly roll bases.  what is the difference between 5 guys who dont want opposition and 30 guys that will overwhelm a base?  none, they all just want to roll bases unopposed.


semp

[Tank-Ace]

EVZ, do you realize they can still do what they want? Its just adding more options, nothing is being taken away.

No, thats not what a rationale is. A rationale is the fundamental reason for something's existance. We don't know WHY htc decided to add the darbar, we don't know what they hoped the effect would be, and so I can't go against that end goal because I don't know what it is.

And you've still failed to respond to the fact that, based on your use of the werd pervert, you yourself are trying to pervert the game. Are both of us trying to pervert the game (based on your use of the word and its defenition) or are neither of us trying to pervert the game? It has to be one or the other, based on defenitions.


Semp, because 5 people can be stopped by 3 people or even 2 if those 2 people are good, where as 30 people can't really be stopped by 10 people. It would allow for smaller, more numerous fights, one big fight, or something in between the two.

And btw, do you have any real criticism of this? Or are you just confused.

[EVZ]

EVZ, do you realize they can still do what they want? Its just adding more options, nothing is being taken away.

Except the DARBAR... duh...

A rationale is the fundamental reason for something's existence. We don't know WHY htc decided to add the darbar,

Sure we do ... it realistically simulates the WWII combat environment of ground observers reporting aircraft contacts .... Double DUH ...

And you've still failed to respond to the fact that, based on your use of the werd pervert,

Sorry, no comment. I have no more desire to see the English language reinvented than I do the DarBar system.

And btw, do you have any real criticism of this? Or are you just confused.

IS there ANYONE out there you have failed to confuse by this point? ... Duh x 3 ...

Inre: What WERE those observer corp geezers doing when they failed to spot those planes - Maybe the Germans air-dropped some St. Pauli Girl Blow Up Dolls?

[Tank-Ace]

See Rule #4

[B-17]

Except the DARBAR... duh...
Sure we do ... it realistically simulates the WWII combat environment of ground observers reporting aircraft contacts .... Double DUH ...
Sorry, no comment. I have no desire to see the English language reinvented than I do the DarBar system.
IS there ANYONE out there you have failed to confuse by this point? ... Duh x 3 ...

Inre: What WERE those observer corp geezers doing when they failed to spot those planes - Maybe the Germans air-dropped some St. Pauli Girl Blow Up Dolls?

LOLOL

^This. Is. AWESOME!!!!

He's right, too; darbar was the game-friendly version of the observer corps. Which means that HTC came up with the idea, COMPARED it to the real thing, said "wow, this is actually a decent representaion of that aspect of WWII!!"

THAT'S the "rationale"

[Tank-Ace]

No, that's the support for it, that's not necessarily why they put it in the game. Since theres so many things that happened/were used in WWII that aren't in the game, saying "they put in in the game because it represents something in WWII" carries no water.

Its rationale is what they ultimately hoped to achieve by adding it. Did they hope to promote fights? Did they hope to make it harder to sneak bases? Make it easier to find friendlies and work together?

Find that, and we can know if my suggestion goes against it. Till then, you really don't have any argument to support the 'this is a perversion' argument.


BTW, why are you supporting him? He's provably wrong almost every time he says something.

[B-17]

No, that's the support for it, that's not necessarily why they put it in the game.

Ummmm... care to look at your previous definition of "rationale"?

No, thats not what a rationale is. A rationale is the fundamental reason for something's existance. We don't know WHY htc decided to add the darbar, we don't know what they hoped the effect would be, and so I can't go against that end goal because I don't know what it is.

What I posted WAS a reason to add the darbar...

Just to be clear:

try: rationale  [rash-uh-nal]

Part of Speech: noun

Definition: logic for belief, action

Synonyms: account, excuse, explanation, exposition, grounds, hypothesis, justification, motivation, motive, philosophy, principle, raison d'être, rationalization, reason, reasons, song and dance, sour grapes, story*, the big idea, the whole idea, theory, whatfor, why and wherefore, whyfor

Notes: a rationale  is given for a future course of action, whereas a rationalization  is offered for a past action

[Tank-Ace]

Ummmm... care to look at your previous definition of "rationale"?

What I posted WAS a reason to add the darbar...

Just to be clear:

'The fundamental reason it exists', and 'why it exists' are the same thing.

But you're right. It could be the rationale for the darbar. But again, that might not be their rationale for the darbar.

However, it could just as easily be that they wanted to make it harder to avoid fighting. Or maybe they added it just because Dale thought it would be neat.

Either way, we don't know THEIR rationale for adding the darbar, and so we can't tell if my suggestion goes against it.

[EVZ]

Either way, we don't know THEIR rationale for adding the darbar, and so we can't tell if my suggestion goes against it.

Doesn't denial of consensual reality constitute psychosis? Grasping at straws is one thing ... but grasping at IMAGINARY STRAWS is ???

DAR BAR is a simple yet elegant element of a simulated WWII environment. The pollution of that environment evidently isn't as important to some people as they say it is. The proposed revision of DARBAR is completely artificial and has no analog in reality of THAT historical period, or any other that -I- know of.

[Tank-Ace]

Oh, it does actually, and its very simple:

A single plane is less likely to be seen than a group of 10 planes, and is ever so much more hard to spot than a formation of 30 aircraft spread out all over the sky.

[guncrasher]

EVZ, do you realize they can still do what they want? Its just adding more options, nothing is being taken away.




Semp, because 5 people can be stopped by 3 people or even 2 if those 2 people are good, where as 30 people can't really be stopped by 10 people. It would allow for smaller, more numerous fights, one big fight, or something in between the two.

And btw, do you have any real criticism of this? Or are you just confused.

how can 3 guys stop your 5 if the darbar wont show anything?  and btw we have stopped 30 guys with a lot less than 10.  ghi once stopped over 50 by himself by shooting down every single goon for about 2 hours.

you still havent proved how your idea will help the game, while hinting that it will break up into smaller fights is not necessarily what is going to happen.  the idea behind darbar is to help others find a sector where activity is happening.  you want to find  a small fight then look for a small darbar.  you want to furball among 100's then look for 2 or 3 darbars in one sector.  you dont want darbar to show then go noe, it's just that simple.

and something is taken away btw.  the ability to find small fights.  

semp

[B-17]

ghi once stopped over 50 by himself by shooting down every single goon for about 2 hours.