Preventing Shade Accounts

[Wiley]

There are 2 issues I would also like to identify that have irritated me about this thread:

1)  The basic assumption that if two accounts are flying from the same IP for different countries, they are sharing information among themselves.  While not coming out and specifically saying it, people are assuming that the people doing it are cheating, without knowledge of what is going on on the other side of that IP.  It could be a college dormitory or any of a number of other possibilities, many of which have nothing to do with cheating, but if blocked, could quite easily impede many legitimate users of the game for no good reason.

2) The constant whining about cheating infects almost every forum for the game and frankly, serves little to no purpose.  If someone is on channel talking about how their shade/buddy is giving them insider info, film it and report them if it bothers you so much.  The forums are not the place for meaningful discussion of cheating.

Wiley.

[Tazz69]

Then where do you suggest we discuss this topic then? I'm in agreement 100% with Pand. This is the 'Wish List', and I also wish to see the cheating stopped. It might not be possible to correct this issue, but I'm sure as hell tired of flying a goon NOE for 5 sectors and land on a spot that no one would ever think of, only to have the same guy up from a no where base and come straight to me hiding on a beach in my goon and kill me! Yes, it's possible for this to happen the odd time, but every time it's the same thing with the same 2 or 3 guys from the same squad, most of the time in a 262.

[wil3ur]

It won't fix any problems, especially since there are people out there who actively share their account information to be utilized in such ways while they're offline by other squaddies.  I know this goes on in the MidWar (screenshots), dunno about LW arenas.

[Shuffler]

Is that your opinion or HTC's opinion?  (As that may have an impact on regular subscribers who have had enough)

Why have you had enough? Shade accounts are just an account to fly under when you want to be left alone.

1.  While not coming out and specifically saying it, many people that have posted here are defending the use of shade accounts and endorsing cheating in-game.  Basically, by implying nothing needs to be done about this, they are saying it is OK and that cheating is not an issue.

Defending shade accounts in no way endorses cheating. It has been my experience through the years that 90% of the time cheating allegations are brought forth by folks who do just that. Sort of like a thief always thinking someone is trying to steal from them.


I have seen someone in MW use a shared account to find a CV. I will say that most with shades do not participate in this type of shenanigans. IMHO.

[VonMessa]

Then where do you suggest we discuss this topic then? I'm in agreement 100% with Pand. This is the 'Wish List', and I also wish to see the cheating stopped. It might not be possible to correct this issue, but I'm sure as hell tired of flying a goon NOE for 5 sectors and land on a spot that no one would ever think of, only to have the same guy up from a no where base and come straight to me hiding on a beach in my goon and kill me! Yes, it's possible for this to happen the odd time, but every time it's the same thing with the same 2 or 3 guys from the same squad, most of the time in a 262.

Easiest trick in the book:

A) base under attack

B) grab fastest plane available

C) look for goon(s)

D) eliminate them with extreme prejudice

rinse and repeat

Perhaps it is just that your tactics fall short...

[Chilli]

Then where do you suggest we discuss this topic then? I'm in agreement 100% with Pand. This is the 'Wish List', and I also wish to see the cheating stopped. It might not be possible to correct this issue, but I'm sure as hell tired of flying a goon NOE for 5 sectors and land on a spot that no one would ever think of, only to have the same guy up from a no where base and come straight to me hiding on a beach in my goon and kill me! Yes, it's possible for this to happen the odd time, but every time it's the same thing with the same 2 or 3 guys from the same squad, most of the time in a 262.

Tazz,

I could give you a number of reasons other than cheating to describe what you have experienced.  The number one reason is experience.  I will go with that one first, since you say they flew a 262 (not your everyday pilot's choice).   It is NO SECRET, that troops are needed to capture a base.  Experienced defenders go GOON HUNTING.  I am an "experienced" cartoon goon pilot.  I know where and what I would do to "hide" my cargo.  Let me guess, you were on a deserted island, behind a mountain ridge, or some place just outside of the radar ring.  First 3 places that I would give a good look at.  

The other thing that you are not considering, is the ability to see your plane nestled in tightly among hedge rows or such.  There are a number of settings and ground detail levels that defeat your stealthiness.  More times than not, I have to continue to broadcast my position on range channel to keep friendly contacts from dragging planes attacking them over me.  I often think that some of those friendly draggers are hoping that I am in an ostwind to help rid them of their threat.

The constant cry about spies, does nothing but blame someone else for a possible miscalculation on your or friendly contact's part.  So, before we destroy legitimate reasons for multiple accounts, let's weed out legitimate reasons for HTC to deny them.  If this at all sounds harsh, it was not intended to be.  In earlier years, I possibly would have agreed with your understanding of what has occurred.

[Wiley]

Then where do you suggest we discuss this topic then? I'm in agreement 100% with Pand. This is the 'Wish List', and I also wish to see the cheating stopped. It might not be possible to correct this issue,

You're catching on.  'Do something' or 'I want' is nothing more than whining.

but I'm sure as hell tired of flying a goon NOE for 5 sectors and land on a spot that no one would ever think of, only to have the same guy up from a no where base and come straight to me hiding on a beach in my goon and kill me! Yes, it's possible for this to happen the odd time, but every time it's the same thing with the same 2 or 3 guys from the same squad, most of the time in a 262.

Hmm...  A 262...  the fastest plane in the game.  The right tool to cover as much ground as possible.  How do you know he came 'directly to you', by the by?  You landed near a base that had a chance to be taken yes?  Yeah, there's no reason at all someone might do a flyover of such a tricksy location as 'the beach in the vicinity of a base whose town is about to go down.'  Gotta be cheating!  The fact that it's often the same '2 or 3 guys' doesn't indicate that they maybe head out to look for landed goons in their territory (which is such an awesome, non-gamey use of a goon, by the way) as a group to cover more ground.

Nope.  Gotta be cheating.

Wiley.

[guncrasher]

there's some times when i have landed a goon in a place nobody would bother to look and i got killed because I announced it on country.  it happens infrequently but it happens. but spying is not as rampant as everybody seems to think it is.  I dont announce stuff like goons on country chanel anymore, not even my buffs.


most of the time so called spying is because we find goons/buffs/noe in a place where they are most likely to be.  people are creatures of habit and if you pay attention and been around for a while, you will know where the goons/buffs are going to be or coming from.  it's just that simple.  missions like the vtards participate on are so easy to bust because the never engage the fighters as they fly by them to go hunt for goons.  then they start whining about spying.  it's just stupid.


semp

[Pand]

I could give you a number of reasons other than cheating to describe what you have experienced.  The number one reason is experience.  I will go with that one first, since you say they flew a 262 (not your everyday pilot's choice).   It is NO SECRET, that troops are needed to capture a base.  Experienced defenders go GOON HUNTING.  I am an "experienced" cartoon goon pilot.  I know where and what I would do to "hide" my cargo.  Let me guess, you were on a deserted island, behind a mountain ridge, or some place just outside of the radar ring.  First 3 places that I would give a good look at.  

While this cant 'officially' be proven, lets walk through a scenario.  Would this be considered cheating if utilized, and if so, what could be done to prevent it?  Or is everyone saying this is ok and acceptable behavior?

1.  Country1 pilots posts a mission that contains bombers, fighters, goons, etc.
2.  Country2 pilot who also has another online shade account on Country1, looks to see who signs up for goons in Country1's mission, and utilizes the .wingman command to know exactly where the goon pilot will be during the attack.
3.  Country2 pilot flies directly to goon #1 and kills it, re-issues new .wingman command for other pilot, flies directly to goon #2 and kills it, rinse and repeat.
4.  Sometimes Country1's pilots don't 'sign-up' in the mission, and are often flying at a different/hidden location than the main force to help thwart this anomoly.  Country2's shade account in Country1, has radar of ALL attacking aircraft.  Country2's pilot reviews the radar and can easily ident a dot that hasn't moved, or is by itself, and use deductive reasoning as to where the assult's goon *could be* located since they can see all aircraft on radar.  (This should not be the case when their radar on their country has been destroyed).

We have been witness to multiple situations of enemy aircraft that appeared to be 'racing' each other directlyto the hidden goon's location.  It's one thing to hunt, and there's another to take off and fly direct because you know where he is.  Yes, there is the off chance they just got lucky, but it happens quite consistently and with a handful of the same callsigns.

[Lusche]

. It might not be possible to correct this issue, but I'm sure as hell tired of flying a goon NOE for 5 sectors and land on a spot that no one would ever think of, only to have the same guy up from a no where base and come straight to me hiding on a beach in my goon and kill me! Yes, it's possible for this to happen the odd time, but every time it's the same thing with the same 2 or 3 guys from the same squad, most of the time in a 262.

This si the stuff most of the unfounded "spy" and "cheating" allegations come from.  There is no place "no one ever thinks of". Every thing what can be done, has been done. Repeatedly.

Just like a goon pilot will think about a strategy to get his bird to his target (maproom), the defender will do the same. Some of us have spend  literally thousands of hours defending bases on the different AH maps. Such a defender knows the probable routes and tactics as well as the seemingly improbable ones - because he has seen (and maybe used) them all.
After the first few kills on the attackers of a NOE rides he may be able to determine mission planner and/or the squad making up the main body of that mission, which gives you another clue... yes, many players/squads are following a predictable pattern, even when it's an unconventional one (In this regards, AH can be just like chess or other games... try to anticipate your opponents next moves). Some squads will entirely scrub the raid when meeting oppositions, some will give it a break and come back shortly before the town will pop with another surprise goon raid.
If you now put in the geography, there are often not many areas left where a goon might wait. Experience plays a huge role.


By the way... depending on terrain a landed goon can be seen for quite a distance, often as just a small "flicker" on the ground - enough reason to head there...

[guncrasher]

While this cant 'officially' be proven, lets walk through a scenario.  Would this be considered cheating if utilized, and if so, what could be done to prevent it?  Or is everyone saying this is ok and acceptable behavior?

1.  Country1 pilots posts a mission that contains bombers, fighters, goons, etc.
2.  Country2 pilot who also has another online shade account on Country1, looks to see who signs up for goons in Country1's mission, and utilizes the .wingman command to know exactly where the goon pilot will be during the attack.
3.  Country2 pilot flies directly to goon #1 and kills it, re-issues new .wingman command for other pilot, flies directly to goon #2 and kills it, rinse and repeat.
4.  Sometimes Country1's pilots don't 'sign-up' in the mission, and are often flying at a different/hidden location than the main force to help thwart this anomoly.  Country2's shade account in Country1, has radar of ALL attacking aircraft.  Country2's pilot reviews the radar and can easily ident a dot that hasn't moved, or is by itself, and use deductive reasoning as to where the assult's goon *could be* located since they can see all aircraft on radar.  (This should not be the case when their radar on their country has been destroyed).

We have been witness to multiple situations of enemy aircraft that appeared to be 'racing' each other directlyto the hidden goon's location.  It's one thing to hunt, and there's another to take off and fly direct because you know where he is.  Yes, there is the off chance they just got lucky, but it happens quite consistently and with a handful of the same callsigns.

  pand that is just bs.  goons 99% of the time will come straight from the base they took off from.  it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know where they are gonna be.

i can spot goons on the deck when flying out of the sun way before icon range.  specially with shadows on.  we busted 3 or 4 vtard missions because i was able to zoom in and scan the water in a place they might be as I was going somewhere else to find them.  then i directed country guys to them, i didnt cheat, but it's funny for people to think that just because you find the goons then you are cheating.


semp

[VonMessa]

This si the stuff most of the unfounded "spy" and "cheating" allegations come from.  There is no place "no one ever thinks of". Every thing what can be done, has been done. Repeatedly.

Just like a goon pilot will think about a strategy to get his bird to his target (maproom), the defender will do the same. Some of us have spend  literally thousands of hours defending bases on the different AH maps. Such a defender knows the probable routes and tactics as well as the seemingly improbable ones - because he has seen (and maybe used) them all.
After the first few kills on the attackers of a NOE rides he may be able to determine mission planner and/or the squad making up the main body of that mission, which gives you another clue... yes, many players/squads are following a predictable pattern, even when it's an unconventional one (In this regards, AH can be just like chess or other games... try to anticipate your opponents next moves). Some squads will entirely scrub the raid when meeting oppositions, some will give it a break and come back shortly before the town will pop with another surprise goon raid.
If you now put in the geography, there are often not many areas left where a goon might wait. Experience plays a huge role.


By the way... depending on terrain a landed goon can be seen for quite a distance, often as just a small "flicker" on the ground - enough reason to head there...

No way!

It MUST be c*%ating.  

When I see a base, under attack and close to a capture, the first thing I look for is a goon or two or three.  This is before I even THINK about engaging attackers...

 

[RTHolmes]

had a guy on country ch last night ranting about a CV being located by a shade then sunk.

it was about 5 miles from its spawn point at its own port. there were at least 4 red dots in its radar ring 5 mins earlier when it spawned.

 

[PFactorDave]

While this cant 'officially' be proven, lets walk through a scenario.  Would this be considered cheating if utilized, and if so, what could be done to prevent it?  Or is everyone saying this is ok and acceptable behavior?

1.  Country1 pilots posts a mission that contains bombers, fighters, goons, etc.
2.  Country2 pilot who also has another online shade account on Country1, looks to see who signs up for goons in Country1's mission, and utilizes the .wingman command to know exactly where the goon pilot will be during the attack.
3.  Country2 pilot flies directly to goon #1 and kills it, re-issues new .wingman command for other pilot, flies directly to goon #2 and kills it, rinse and repeat.
4.  Sometimes Country1's pilots don't 'sign-up' in the mission, and are often flying at a different/hidden location than the main force to help thwart this anomoly.  Country2's shade account in Country1, has radar of ALL attacking aircraft.  Country2's pilot reviews the radar and can easily ident a dot that hasn't moved, or is by itself, and use deductive reasoning as to where the assult's goon *could be* located since they can see all aircraft on radar.  (This should not be the case when their radar on their country has been destroyed).

We have been witness to multiple situations of enemy aircraft that appeared to be 'racing' each other directlyto the hidden goon's location.  It's one thing to hunt, and there's another to take off and fly direct because you know where he is.  Yes, there is the off chance they just got lucky, but it happens quite consistently and with a handful of the same callsigns.

So...  Your problem is with people who use a shade account to cheat.  Agreed, that's childish behavior.  However, I would suggest that most of the cheating you are so concerned with is probably being down by two different people on their own accounts simply sharing information.  Also childish behavior.

Now...

I have on, several occaisions, opened a second paying account.  A shade.

I never once used it to cheat.  In fact, I never once had both accounts even logged in at the same time.

Do you know why I have used shade accounts?

Not to spiezzz on the bad guyzzz...

The squadron that I belong to used to have a policy of only flying on the Bishop side.  I never really cared for this policy, since I feel that chess piece loyalty in a game like Aces High is simply silly.  I wanted to be able to switch to the low numbers side sometimes.  I wanted a chance to get to know the other 2/3rds of the people playing Aces High, to make new friends.  I could have left my squad and joined a squad that liked to switch sides occaisionally.  But I had no desire to leave the great group of guys I have been flying with since almost the beginning of my Aces High career.

So, I made a shade account.  I told nobody.  Not even the guys in my squad.  When I was logged in as my shade, anybody who knows PFactorD just assumed I wasn't online.  I did no spying.

So...  How did my shade account harm you or your play experience?  Obviously it didn't.  All the while, HTC was getting twice the revenue from me.  Do you think HTC cared that I had a shade?  I'm sure that HiTech would love for everyone to have two accounts like I did.

But you want them to prohibit me from ever having two accounts again, eh?

Well whatever, my squadron has adopted a policy of touring the countries, and I no longer have or need my shade account.

[Pand]

pand that is just bs.  goons 99% of the time will come straight from the base they took off from.  it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know where they are gonna be.

Obviously, the situations I am referring to doesn't include a goon flying directly in.