some people never learn

[eddiek]

Way back in 1992 I was working for a shop in Amarillo.  I was their heavy line guy, got most of the clutches and engine replacements, but if it was slow, I helped the other guys out.
Had an '89 Turbo Trans Am come in with a "Cranks over but won't start problem".  The guy who was assigned to that job tested fuel pressure.....zippo, nada.......he immediately deduces that the fuel pump is bad.  Orders a new pump and while the part is being delivered proceeds to drop the tank and remove the old pump.  I helped him get the tank down and watched him remove the "bad pump".  I looked into the tank, chuckled, tried to tell him to stop NOW........got told to stfu and get back to my bay, HE knew what he was doing.
New pump arrives, he installs it, I help him get the tank back up and he wraps up the job.  Lets the car down on the lift, gets in, turns the key to start it up...........cranks over, but won't start.
At this point the customer is there to pay for the job and get his car (shop owner's wife was the bookkeeper and ordered our parts and told the customers about how long it would take to do the job).  Customer walks out and asks if it's fixed, other technician/parts replacer tells him "yeah, they always do this.....new pumps have to prime" blah blah blah........since the oh so very knowledgable tech had shunned me and told me to "stfu", I chose that moment to tell him and the customer to look at the fuel gauge.........which was all the over past the "E". 
Five gallons of gas in the tank, and it fired right up.............$500 repair bill because the owner of the car AND the tech didn't think to look at the dang fuel gauge.  I pointed out the tank was practically dry when he pulled the old pump out, and he blew me off.........
Not long after that fiasco, which resulted in a free pump for the customer after he threatened to sue and call the local TV stations about almost being defrauded on the repair, I got to witness the owner of the shop, who was an "expert" at the then pretty new and seemingly complicated EFI systems of the day, start calling the parts store and replacing part after part rather than actually diagnosing the problem on a Beretta.........
Yeah, when we parted ways, I was relieved to get out of that mess.  They refused to allow us to see what we "should" have been getting paid for the jobs we were doing.  I knew when I had done almost a dozen clutch jobs in one week, along with a couple engine R&R's, and my take home pay was only $250 that I was getting screwed and royally. 
I still had friends at other shops who looked up the book hours on the jobs and I should have had a nice fat paycheck..........that ended my working on cars for pay...........I do it now only for fun or to help friend out.

[CAP1]

DAYUM!!!

 i'd almost kill to have someone that knows what the hell their doing.....and only hafta pay em $250/week.

 personally, i'd have not helped him get the tank back in after that stfu comment......those things are bears in those cars. i'd have let him fight it.

[Shuffler]

DAYUM!!!

 i'd almost kill to have someone that knows what the hell their doing.....and only hafta pay em $250/week.

 personally, i'd have not helped him get the tank back in after that stfu comment......those things are bears in those cars. i'd have let him fight it.

Naa this one was much easier..... it was empty.

One of my guys in the shop asked me the best way to change the fuel pump on his 98 chevy half ton 4x4. He has one just like I sold last year to my son-in=law.

He said something about dropping the tank..... I told him it sounds easy... but it is much easier removing the bed. Six bolts and it lifts right off with the help of one friend. lol

[CAP1]

Naa this one was much easier..... it was empty.

One of my guys in the shop asked me the best way to change the fuel pump on his 98 chevy half ton 4x4. He has one just like I sold last year to my son-in=law.

He said something about dropping the tank..... I told him it sounds easy... but it is much easier removing the bed. Six bolts and it lifts right off with the help of one friend. lol

 i thought about that on the dodge ram1500 extended cab i just did a fuel pump on. the thing was a rust bucket though. i was afraid of breaking bolts.

[cattb]

I need opinion,
 Which is a good auto engine scanner for the money. There are a few I see actron, OTC, Equus, autoexray, and some others. I prefer OBD2 and ABS together, but what I prefer and hear from people may be a different story.
Also prefer under 300 and can upgrade the firmware. Basically this will be for a Cavalier 2004. Maybe someday a newer vehicle or different vehicle.

I'm my own backyard mechanic, but I take to friends when I need the vehicle scanned.

Any opinions..................... ..........

[eddiek]

Hahaha, CAP.........I hate to admit this, but........we got paid every other week.......that was $250 take home for TWO weeks work........that shop is no longer in business, the business was demolished several years ago.  Yeah, I was getting raped big time; my son, now 19 years old, was 11 months old at the time, his mother, now my ex, wasn't working, and I was afraid, or just too timid, to stand up for myself the way I would now.
They left a computer out in the shop once, and it had the Chilton hourly rates for the various jobs on it. 
Dunno what they thought we would do, we were all curious......so we started looking up the different jobs we were doing and saw that we were all getting screwed.  That particular week I mentioned where I had done the clutch jobs..........IIRC, I should have gotten between 80 and 100 hours for those jobs.......I was new to the profession and was happy at the time to be making $12.50/hour commission.......when you realize that you busted your butt and only brought home pay equivalent to less than a quarter of what you should have made, it can make even the most laid back person lose their cool.
The day I told the owner and his witch with B wife to stick, I backed my truck up into my bay, started loading up my toolboxes and stuff, and he came over and told me if I would start staying later in the evening after the shop closed he was almost sure my paychecks would improve.  I had written down the hours they had cheated me out of and showed them to him.  He wasn't so friendly then, told me what they charged the customers and what I made was none of my business and tried to take the notebook I had written them in from me.  I refused to hand it over, and went on loading my truck. 
As I was driving off he told me to never set foot on his property again, but his facial expression wasn't anger.........it looked like fear.  By the end of the next week he only had one mechanic left there, as three of us four walked out on him.
When I came back to town a few months later (we relocated to a town 3 hours away when I quit that job), the place looked like a ghost town.  Another friend who worked at a dealership told me the word of what they had done had spread and no one, not even new grads from the local trade school, would go to work for them.

[CAP1]

Hahaha, CAP.........I hate to admit this, but........we got paid every other week.......that was $250 take home for TWO weeks work........that shop is no longer in business, the business was demolished several years ago.  Yeah, I was getting raped big time; my son, now 19 years old, was 11 months old at the time, his mother, now my ex, wasn't working, and I was afraid, or just too timid, to stand up for myself the way I would now.
They left a computer out in the shop once, and it had the Chilton hourly rates for the various jobs on it. 
Dunno what they thought we would do, we were all curious......so we started looking up the different jobs we were doing and saw that we were all getting screwed.  That particular week I mentioned where I had done the clutch jobs..........IIRC, I should have gotten between 80 and 100 hours for those jobs.......I was new to the profession and was happy at the time to be making $12.50/hour commission.......when you realize that you busted your butt and only brought home pay equivalent to less than a quarter of what you should have made, it can make even the most laid back person lose their cool.
The day I told the owner and his witch with B wife to stick, I backed my truck up into my bay, started loading up my toolboxes and stuff, and he came over and told me if I would start staying later in the evening after the shop closed he was almost sure my paychecks would improve.  I had written down the hours they had cheated me out of and showed them to him.  He wasn't so friendly then, told me what they charged the customers and what I made was none of my business and tried to take the notebook I had written them in from me.  I refused to hand it over, and went on loading my truck. 
As I was driving off he told me to never set foot on his property again, but his facial expression wasn't anger.........it looked like fear.  By the end of the next week he only had one mechanic left there, as three of us four walked out on him.
When I came back to town a few months later (we relocated to a town 3 hours away when I quit that job), the place looked like a ghost town.  Another friend who worked at a dealership told me the word of what they had done had spread and no one, not even new grads from the local trade school, would go to work for them.

 dam......those are the kind of shop owners that need to be gone. they give us all a bad name.

 i tend to not like flatrate pay....i didn't like it when i worked for other people....always worked hourly....and i won't ever pay that way. i feel that although you find some gifted mechanics that can do a great job, and do it fast.....it also seems to make soooo many guys do crappy work.

 i was gonna hire a kid from a local college as an apprentice....last fall. he was just by the shop the other day. i think i'm gonna hire him, as he's got a great attitude, and seems anxious to work and learn. also, he drives a dodge ram 4x4. none of that little fart cannon stuff. 

[CAP1]

I need opinion,
 Which is a good auto engine scanner for the money. There are a few I see actron, OTC, Equus, autoexray, and some others. I prefer OBD2 and ABS together, but what I prefer and hear from people may be a different story.
Also prefer under 300 and can upgrade the firmware. Basically this will be for a Cavalier 2004. Maybe someday a newer vehicle or different vehicle.

I'm my own backyard mechanic, but I take to friends when I need the vehicle scanned.

Any opinions..................... ..........

 you're just looking for basics? i think sears(of all places) has a pretty nice setup. it does obd2, i think it does antilock, but not sure, it'll read codes, has some definitions, reads monitors and their status, and i think gives you basic datastream too. a friend of mine has one of theirs, and likes it a lot.

 if you were willing to go to about $2500, i could put you in touch with my old boss in blackwood nj. he's selling a kick bellybutton otc scanner.

[Meatwad]

Oh dear lord don't talk to me about water pumps.  I've helped my Father replace them on my '93 Ranger and my Sister's '01 Ranger.  I hope the engineer who designed that procedure is forced to do that every day for the rest of his life.
My Sister's truck wasn't that bad, auto zone had the special part for her fan assembly, came off pretty easy except for the water pump and the foot long (only slightly exaggerated) bolts that attached it.  But my Ranger...  The water pump on that damn thing goes out again and the truck is going to the junkyard, as much as I love it.

Dang, I have an 01 ranger. Dont want to experience that

[Hoffman]

Dang, I have an 01 ranger. Dont want to experience that

The '01 Ranger, well her's is an Edge, wasn't that bad.  It needs a special tool to get the nut that holds the fan off.  You have to take off the alternator, and a couple other parts on the top front of the engine block to get at it. I forget their names atm.  It's not bad, just a little tedious as the bolts for those are a good 4-6 inches long.
As long as you have the special tool and a good wrench in the right size comes off pretty easy.
You have to hold the shaft steady and then loosen the nut.

The problem was they didn't have the tool for my '93 Ranger, and you can't just twist it off because the fan will rotate the whole thing as you go.  Add in 18 years of spinning in the direction that tightens and you've got a bit of a problem.  Two of us, once we got the tools to get a grip on the assembly couldn't get it to budge at all.  We practically lifted the whole front end off the ground trying.
Finally got mad enough at it, grabbed a metal punch and a hammer and just beat on it till it came loose.  
Second time around took half the time, tried once to loosen it, then went straight to the hammer.

[dedalos]

told me what they charged the customers and what I made was none of my business

You don;t think that is right?  Just remember that you did not get paid a penny more that what he was willing to give you and not a penny less than what you were willing to accept 

[VonMessa]

You don;t think that is right?  Just remember that you did not get paid a penny more that what he was willing to give you and not a penny less than what you were willing to accept 

Not entirely right, no.  Taking advantage of someone because of their lack of knowledge does not make it right, it only makes it easier to do.

That being said, it is always wise to be aware of what the average wage for you skill set is in the working world and compare it to your own. 

Your last sentence holds true, though.  Most of the time (not always) raises are not given unless scheduled or asked for. 

[CAP1]

You don;t think that is right?  Just remember that you did not get paid a penny more that what he was willing to give you and not a penny less than what you were willing to accept 

 i think he showed good restraint when the guy tried saying his paycheck would get better if he stayed later. and when the guy tried taking the notepad out of his hand.
 i was lucky. a shop i quit at once, the owner tried to tell me i couldn't take my tools right then. it turned into a yelling match. my friend was already there with the flatbed to get my box. he's known me a long time. as soon as the voices went up, he stepped in close. he knew what was coming. the guy kept yelling, and i went quiet. now mike stepped in between us. he then nearly tackled me, to prevent me from getting myself arrested. i am thankful for that, because i did totally lose control, and that shop owner came within a second or so of waking up in the er.
 the police showed up a few minutes later(mike had already called them), and kept the guy away from me while we loaded my box onto the flatbed.

[morfiend]

 Cap,

  Do you have a shop camera? If not it would be a cheap and wise investment.  Nothing beats a he said,she said like a picture.


    If I was still in business I'd be using it on every job!




   

[eddiek]

dedalos.........your conclusion was my fault......insufficient data as it were.
When the guy hired me, he pointed out how professional he was, how they went by the book, the book meaning the labor manual for each job.  He pointed out the labor guides in the office, so I knew what he was talking about.  At the place where I had worked before that job, I was friends with several of the service writers and knew how they figured labor costs.
That's what I was meaning in my previous post.  When he hired me he was clear that the jobs would pay what the books called for.  It was later on when myself and others started digging and finding out what the various repairs should have been paying US that things went so sour.
He had won a bid for a service contract with a local company for service and repair of their fleet of vehicles, mainly Ford F350's and F450's.  All of them were manual transmissions, loaded to the gills with tools and equipment, so much so that we didn't have a lift in our shop that would raise one of them up.  No transmission jacks either........getting one of those transmissions removed and then reinstalled was an adventure.  Come-alongs, straps, whatever I could find to help lift the transmissions back into place was standard fare.  It was like being a backyard mechanic but inside his shop. 
CAP can tell you, having the proper tools, being able to get a vehicle up on lift is a time saver when you are working underneath a vehicle.  Not being able to do that, having to slide around on the floor took time and extra effort. 
On top of that, it seemed that almost every truck I worked on had a transmission with an "EXPERIMENTAL" tag or sticker on the transmission.  Never knew what was up with that......had to special order some parts when I was doing a clutch job on those. 
The jist of my statement was this:  I was doing work that, if he had been honest, would have paid me well.  He knew my family's financial situation, and paid me just enough to get by, knowing that I was young and not always sure of myself.  IMO, he took advantage of that and paid myself and others a lot less than what we had coming for the work we performed. 
It was the equivalent of someone hiring you to work for say, $20/hour, then when payday comes, your check is only a fraction of what it should have been.  If you put in 40 hours, you expect pay for those 40 hours.  What he was doing was like only paying you for 10 of those 40 hours, and then telling you it was none of your business how many hours he paid you for.  That's dishonest in anyone's book.