Author Topic: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House  (Read 3428 times)

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2012, 02:19:57 PM »
I'm quite sure you initially meant Allen's D-13

Of course you are.  :rolleyes:

Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.
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Offline Tec

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2012, 02:54:48 PM »


 he also splooged a little extra

I think the 190 is as sexy as the next guy, but not that sexy... unless you meant splurge :lol
To each their pwn.
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Offline Nathan60

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2012, 03:40:36 PM »
Of course you are.  :rolleyes:

Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.

Why dont ya just link your sources?
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Offline AHTbolt

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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2012, 07:06:55 PM »
How do you obtain something like that?

I'm very interested on how, because I'd consider trying.

Most are the graves of the airmen whom flew them there - this is why most are still there and likely always will be.

But, if you spend the money, engineer the plan, proove the aircraft without a reasonable doubt isn't a war grave.... and then, you....

They will let you recover it after approving your method they look at your restoration plan, Then tell you where to send it when your finished. Unlike the air force that strikes crashed planes from there books the navy never has so they still own crashed planes. I can post the reg when I get off work.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 07:08:50 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 07:12:41 PM »
I think the 190 is as sexy as the next guy, but not that sexy... unless you meant splurge :lol

Do you know how much a vintage (or even replica) nazi-germany era focke wulf kommandogerat mixture-control unit costs?  To call it a splurge would be an injustice.  :devil
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 07:15:21 PM by Babalonian »
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Offline JOACH1M

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2012, 10:16:52 PM »
Here's a link to a story from 2004. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4615412/ns/us_news/t/navy-sues-man-over-salvaged-wwii-plane/#.T2J4Ukfgc14
Thanks bud, interesting read!
Most are the graves of the airmen whom flew them there - this is why most are still there and likely always will be.

But, if you spend the money, engineer the plan, proove the aircraft without a reasonable doubt isn't a war grave.... and then, you....

well if it is a war grave I would for sure leave it be out of respect for the pilot of the aircraft. My dad said after the war they just dumped most the planes
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2012, 10:18:44 PM »
Of course you are.  :rolleyes:

Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.

Chalenge,
You are being a dick.

In my travels and work within the warbird community, I have personally seen several Jumo cases and water jackets that are close to running conditions.  I know of three different projects that are very low below the radar that are close to runners.  The reason for secrecy, the cost of acquisitions goes up when the part is really sought after.  Further, the industry is beset by crooks, wannabes, and those that are not who they say they are.  Why any self-respecting business continues to deal with the public is beyond me.

Really man, with your history, I'd layoff the internet searches and scorpion anti-venom, it is making you look foolish.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2012, 12:30:46 AM »
Speaking of digging up planes, the great lakes are packed full with early model corsairs and other navy aircraft.

Actually they've brought up the rare ones.  The early Corsair was brought up, the F6F-3, Midway survivor Dauntless,  a Vindicator and others.  There has been a fairly comprehensive documenting of the wrecks with many brought up.  Lots of them floated out to other museums, and a couple of the Wildcats are flying.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2012, 12:45:32 PM »
Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.

WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.

Online lyric1

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2012, 03:58:37 PM »
Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.

WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.

Just to add to this a local restorer who is rebuilding a B-17 here in Ohio. I know quite a few of these guys who are working on this aircraft when they tried to work with any of the Aluminium parts the metal just cracked & crumbled from just being to old.

Just about every Aluminium part of this plane had to be rebuilt from scratch.

This plane was never buried either so I would imagine one that has been underground for as long as those are in Indiana would be in very sad shape.

http://www.champaignaviationmuseum.org/HOME.php

Offline Wmaker

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2012, 09:06:17 PM »
WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.

First of all, I'd leave the judgement weather or not parts like the Jumo 211 of the JK-254 are useful in restorations to those who actually perform said restorations. Second, just because something isn't useful in a full scale restoration doesn't mean that it isn't worth digging up. Seeing one of those JK-254 engines in person they are awesome pieces of history and the very fact that they are damaged tell the story of the crew of the JK-254 who lost their lives on that day. Simply looking at the wooden stumps where a prop blade once was, was an experience for me.
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2012, 10:46:32 PM »
The 213F which powers the D-13 AFAIK is very different from the 213A of a D-9.

Just correcting myself...

Yellow 10's engine is actually 213E, not 213F. There are some sources which say E and some which say F. But according to Jerry Crandall the engine's data plate says E-1. One of the D-13 protypes had an F. The only difference is that F lacks the E's intercooler. Ta-152 also has a 213E while D-9 has an 213A. The difference in altitude performance is rather clear as seen in AH for example:

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 10:51:55 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2012, 12:37:45 PM »
Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.

Krusty,
You are a 10 of 10 on the Krusty BS meter.  Seriously kiddo, you know absolutely ZERO about what you are talking about.  I am not spinning anything.  I have spent the last 20 years working on warbird wrecks and doing restorations, of which several were recovered from burial sites.  That might make me somewhat of an expert when it comes to the subject.  We used many parts of the structures from inside the aircraft (some approaching 75%) as well as the occasional skin that survives the process.  Obviously some parts do not survive and are remade, but that happens even in aircraft that are ragged out as well.  Just because you can not comprehend how it works or what the process involves does not make it impossible. 

You want to know what is really insulting, is that your knowledge is so poor on this subject, yet you still claim to know-it-all and cry when someone points out that you are full of it, yet again.
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Offline Babalonian

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Re: Lost Planes of 1946 Freeman Field Open House
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2012, 06:47:37 PM »
Don't let me interupt the purse fight.  But from last week and the Freeman Field Recovery:  
Quote
*Report from Brian* During the radar scan this morning over the crash site of FE-119, a 70x30 disturbance was found in the soil, which may idicate the dimensions of an excavation. Within that disturbance, are indications of objects up to 30 feet long. Could this be the remains of the famous Focke Wulf 190 "Jutta"?

 :x  :pray

That's right, it might be no better looking than a crumpled up tin can down there and after crashing, but everyone is pretty sure they just found another previously-lost mother f!@3n' D-9!!!

Quote
One of the aircraft that we are searching for is particularly historic. It is the aircraft last flown in combat by Josef "Pips" Priller, a noted German ace who achieved 101 victories, including 68 Spitfires. He was portrayed in the film "The Longest Day" for his sortie against the allied beachead at Normandy.
The aircraft was known as "Black 14" and was brought to Freeman Field and listed as FE-119. During a demonstration flight, FE-119 crashed on the West perimeter of the field, killing it's young American pilot, Lt William Haynes, who was thrown from the wreckage.
During 2009, the Team mapped the crash site, and collected fragments from the aircraft. Reports state that the remains of the aircraft were buried near where the main fuselage came to rest.

---------------

He named many of his aircraft "Jutta" after his girlfriend in Germany. Later, his wife. This aircraft, Black 14 or FE-119, was the last "Jutta".
 








« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 07:04:03 PM by Babalonian »
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