Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....

[Tupac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj5fs8-MF9g

Here I had lots of rudder in to keep it pointed straight, and the plane didnt veer when I touched down. As long as you have rudder authority, you have the ability to land. Crosswinds be damned!

[Tordon22]

Rog, nice landing.

I've been doing this in calm or <5 cross wind situations though. I did it again just a bit ago, just minor (couple of degree yaw and brief screech noise, lasts only 1-2 seconds). I hadn't had this problem before now, and its not during touchdown its 2-3 seconds after that it starts. Has me a bit worried that I'll get a major one going. Crosswind correction in on the one that required it and heels on the floor, not near the brakes. I'm thinking maybe a too abrupt correction as I'm trying maintain centerline.

[Tupac]

Do you mean like skidding laterally across the runway with the tires screeching?

[Tordon22]

Yeah somewhat, sorry if I wasn't clear. The problem is on the roll out. 2-3 seconds after touchdown. The nose moves slightly left and the tires screech a bit. I've maintained a straight track, although I'm sure I wouldn't if I had let it progress any farther.

Another thought I had was that I was releasing back pressure too rapidly around that time and putting too much weight on the nose wheel, making it a little to effective. This is by far the heaviest single I've flown which could be showing my poor technique a lot better than a Cherokee.

[Tupac]

The second bit may be it. I usually let the nose come down on its own, and be sure when you put your feet on the brakes the pressure is even. All the Cessnas I've flown besides the 210 had hyper sensitive brakes.

[Traveler]

This hit me while reading another thread regarding rudder pedals. It went as follows.....


Which begs the question..... your on a plane and the pilot and co-pilot are incapacitated. You have a choice among three gamers to take the controls. One experienced in AH, one in M$FS, and one in IL2...... which would you choose?

When I flew for Eastern, we didn’t have flight attendants , we had stewardesses.  You would be hard pressed to find stewardesses older then 25 yo, they were all single, very tall, slim, very pretty.  No Master’s or Doctorial thesis among their discussions.   

There were a few tests  conducted by Eastern Airlines back in the day when they made what seemed like daily trips to Cuba at the request of the passenger holding the gun.

There were several articles written in Flying and Plane and Pilot on the subject.  I know that Eastern was very concerned and actually had for a while a number of pilots flying as passengers, not in uniform on a lot of the New York to Miami flights.  They also did tests in the Phase III flight simulators that were available at the time.  The aircraft was set up in a cruise flight level and the civilian  was led to the cockpit door and told to take over .   Most couldn’t figure out how to adjust the seat and while attempting to get seated disengaged the autopilot. Things went down hill from there. A few did figure it out , but had a really hard time figuring out where the radios were.  And most were not able to make contact with ATC.  This was in a time before inflight phones or Cell phones.   

On my annual check ride I invited my now wife, then girl friend down to Miami for the week.   Kathleen was a stewardess  had been on a flight deck many times, but had no real flying  experience.  One of the check pilots put her in a 707 Phase III simulator in the typical hijack scenario.  FL 280, Autopilot engaged, flying a normal route segment.  The only difference was they put her in the seat, showed her how to adjust the seat, and put a head set on her and showed her the push to talk switch worked. 

I was really surprised .  After a few practice turns and a little basic airwork,   she flew a pretty decent approach, they set the weather  to 1000fl 5 miles, light rain, with gusts of 18, and night.   She flew the ILS at KEWR for 22R .   It was  a little fast, a little long  and far from the center line, but she got it down and stopped on the runway.  So the lesson learned was if they could be communicated with and had some knowledge available of how the seat works and where the radio stack is and what button to push to talk.  They had a chance.  By the way , she landed it 3 out of 5 times.  The 3rd and 5th  approaches were not survivable.

[JOACH1M]

I honestly think I could land a 747...

[Shuffler]

When I flew for Eastern, we didn’t have flight attendants , we had stewardesses.  You would be hard pressed to find stewardesses older then 25 yo, they were all single, very tall, slim, very pretty.  No Master’s or Doctorial thesis among their discussions.   

There were a few tests  conducted by Eastern Airlines back in the day when they made what seemed like daily trips to Cuba at the request of the passenger holding the gun.

There were several articles written in Flying and Plane and Pilot on the subject.  I know that Eastern was very concerned and actually had for a while a number of pilots flying as passengers, not in uniform on a lot of the New York to Miami flights.  They also did tests in the Phase III flight simulators that were available at the time.  The aircraft was set up in a cruise flight level and the civilian  was led to the cockpit door and told to take over .   Most couldn’t figure out how to adjust the seat and while attempting to get seated disengaged the autopilot. Things went down hill from there. A few did figure it out , but had a really hard time figuring out where the radios were.  And most were not able to make contact with ATC.  This was in a time before inflight phones or Cell phones.   

On my annual check ride I invited my now wife, then girl friend down to Miami for the week.   Kathleen was a stewardess  had been on a flight deck many times, but had no real flying  experience.  One of the check pilots put her in a 707 Phase III simulator in the typical hijack scenario.  FL 280, Autopilot engaged, flying a normal route segment.  The only difference was they put her in the seat, showed her how to adjust the seat, and put a head set on her and showed her the push to talk switch worked. 

I was really surprised .  After a few practice turns and a little basic airwork,   she flew a pretty decent approach, they set the weather  to 1000fl 5 miles, light rain, with gusts of 18, and night.   She flew the ILS at KEWR for 22R .   It was  a little fast, a little long  and far from the center line, but she got it down and stopped on the runway.  So the lesson learned was if they could be communicated with and had some knowledge available of how the seat works and where the radio stack is and what button to push to talk.  They had a chance.  By the way , she landed it 3 out of 5 times.  The 3rd and 5th  approaches were not survivable.

Great read.

One hopes to never be put in that situation. To not have any confidence would remove that person from the list, but on the other hand someone with too much confidence would be removed from that list also. That is my opinion. Case in point the guy landing and over correcting in previous posts. He did not want to relinquish the controls when asked. He was probably not going to meet mother earth in a kindly fashion. His pride/ego was willing to chance the safety of the craft and it's occupants.

[dedalos]

Perhaps.

 It might not be difficult pressing a few buttons but you really need to know which buttons to press.

10 years of college required, I am guessing. There must be like 1,000s of buttons 

[Shuffler]

10 years of college required, I am guessing. There must be like 1,000s of buttons 

Then you graduate to switches

[Golfer]

His pride/ego was willing to chance the safety of the craft and it's occupants.

In Frenchys story I doubt that's the case. It's a matter of how the brain works. That student in question would have been so focused on what he was doing that he stopped reacting to verbal stimuli and needed something that packed a little more punch. He just reached his task saturation point with whatever was in his head he couldn't actually hear and gets tunnel vision on this one thing which shuts you down from the world around you.

Pride and ego would have had nothing to do with it. Anyone who has instructed has seen something like that happen. While I never personally had to smack a student there were several times they would shut down because they physically couldn't take anymore and compartmentalized so much verbal instructions (mine or a controllers) didn't register.

Like Frenchy I found a common thread was they were "better" than average students. The kind you give more things to sooner than you would an average student. Sometimes it's because they need a check on their abilities so you load em up till they cry uncle (using real world scenarios) and take a little bite of humble pie. Others it's because you gave them more than candle by mistake because you overestimated what they should do. As an instructor you shouldn't let your guard down in that fashion but it does happen and it turns into a learning experience for both parties.

[Shuffler]

Good info...  I can see that too. I read the wrong thing into it. Thanks for clarifying.

[Golfer]

It happens at the professional level too.  I flew as a contractor in an awkward situation I'll spare the details about but it was with this company's notorious weakest FO.  Well they needed this trip to go and the CP called asking to save the day on short notice. Having just been laid off from my full time job I was available and I took it before a full disclosure of what was going on and what would make it awkward.

-The airplane would be flown to the pax pickup airport by two ordinarily weak FOs. Being a nice day the CP figured they could find this large airport 80 miles from home base in a jet.
-The two pilots hated each other.
-The weakest of the two would ride in the back as a flight attendant for the passenger leg.
-The really freaking weak pilot would be assigned as the Captain on paper because I wasn't type rated in this airplane.
-I was to be in charge of the flight despite no legal authority whatsoever. I was also asked to make sure "nothing happened" which I can only assume meant "don't sweet crash."

I was informed of this when I was already on the way ro the airport.  Oh boy...this is going to go well.

I run the flight plans and wait for the airplane to arrive. When it does I see the two pilots yelling at each other as they shut down the airplane. Goodie.

I get a GPU plugged in and start getting ready for the flight. As the avionics are powering up the "Captain" shows me the error they had on the way in with the MFD not working and showing the overlay of the route entered into the FMS. There is a welcome screen and a flashing "OK" icon next to a button. I reached up and pressed this button and voila...moving map. Amazed, they asked what I had done to make it work because it wouldn't work on the way down. Mind you, this individual had flown this specific serial number airframe for roughly 1000 hours at this point and I taught them to hit "OK" on the screen. Oh joy...

The whole thing just went downhill from there and concluded with an angry phone call a couple days later from the owner of the management company why I'd stolen the rental car. Not only did I return the rental car, I mistakenly left my sunglasses in it after that long day so I was out $100 from my $500 daily rate right away.

Living the dream.

<edit>

Duh, forgot why I started the story.

On the empty flight (secretary/pilot in the back) back to their home base, clear and a million, with some very prominent landmarks to show where you are the weak pilot was at the controls. This particular airport is very easy to see, this person has been based there for several years and has around 70 miles of clear visibility.

They couldn't find the airport, required vectors to the ILS, ham fist flew the airplane when the autopilot was finally disconnected and flared like a Naval Aviator landing on a carrier. (They didn't)

During the approach they were so fixated they said they didn't hear my coaching to ease the power off and flare. Flare. FLARE. FLARE!!!!!!!! As we tried to drive the gear struts through the wings.

And, I kid you not, on the taxi in turned to me with a smile and solicited approval for their well flown approach. I stopped being nice and pretending I liked them right about then. Post flighted, took a copy of the flight log and drove back to the airport where my truck was parked.

Ugh.

[Shuffler]

Scary stuff lol

[Tupac]

  great story