Author Topic: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....  (Read 2961 times)

Offline Penguin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2012, 10:36:29 PM »
Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?

-Penguin

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2012, 10:37:17 PM »
Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?

-Penguin

most of what?
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."

Offline dedalos

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8052
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #107 on: March 12, 2012, 09:32:11 AM »
Those computers are getting pretty darned good nowadays

Yeah, they are not what they used to be when first saw one  :rofl
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6741
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2012, 04:26:21 PM »
Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?

-Penguin

No, it's monitoring the aircraft, i.e. maintaining aircraft control.



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10423
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2012, 08:01:35 PM »
Is most of it monitoring the auto-pilot?

-Penguin


  I have a friend who's certified to fly just about everything with fixed wings,the 2 planes he's not certified in are next on his schedules.

   While teasing him that he was only along for the ride and to say,"hello this is your capt'n speaking." He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for  a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".

  So peng,feel free to be the first to fly in any plane that uses autopilot instead of a real pilot,myself if it flies high enough to need oxygen then I'll stay on the ground.


    :salute

Offline Penguin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2012, 11:29:40 PM »
I stand corrected.  Well done gentlemen, I cede the point.

-Penguin

Offline saggs

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1250
      • www.kirksagers.com
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2012, 01:34:16 AM »

   He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for  a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".


Well...  that's just not true.   Modern auto-landing systems have no issues at all with crosswinds.  As for a slippery runway the anti-skid system handles that quite nicely.

Offline MachFly

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6296
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2012, 03:40:04 AM »

  I have a friend who's certified to fly just about everything with fixed wings,the 2 planes he's not certified in are next on his schedules.

   While teasing him that he was only along for the ride and to say,"hello this is your capt'n speaking." He told me that the auto pilot/auto landing was really stupid! sure it will follow a glide path but it wont correct for  a cross wind,slippery RW and numerous other "surprises".

  So peng,feel free to be the first to fly in any plane that uses autopilot instead of a real pilot,myself if it flies high enough to need oxygen then I'll stay on the ground.


    :salute

 :headscratch: What does he fly?

The autopilot on my 42 will fly a perfect approach with the wind correction. And that's a GA aircraft.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 04:51:30 AM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10423
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #113 on: March 13, 2012, 05:02:16 AM »
 I was only repeating what I was told,maybe he dumbed it down for me or maybe he was PO'd because I was teasing him saying that modern planes dont need pilots and he was just there to make the passengers feel safe.

  I was told that the auto pilot didnt take everything into consideration,maybe he said gusting winds,I know for sure he said slippery RW's were a problem and a couple others things I dont recall.


  Either way until an auto pilot can think on it's feet,I'd prefer to have a human fly me around thank you very much!

   :salute

Offline MachFly

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6296
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #114 on: March 13, 2012, 05:30:12 AM »
I was only repeating what I was told,maybe he dumbed it down for me or maybe he was PO'd because I was teasing him saying that modern planes dont need pilots and he was just there to make the passengers feel safe.

  I was told that the auto pilot didnt take everything into consideration,maybe he said gusting winds,I know for sure he said slippery RW's were a problem and a couple others things I dont recall.


  Either way until an auto pilot can think on it's feet,I'd prefer to have a human fly me around thank you very much!

   :salute

Perhaps.

The thing is that even if you have the autopilot that will be able to do everything you still need to program the autopilot. And it's not just an on/off switch. It might not be difficult pressing a few buttons but you really need to know which buttons to press.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Puma44

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6741
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2012, 09:52:33 AM »
The purpose of an auto pilot is to reduce pilot work load and fatigue. Sometimes the auto land feature lands better than the pilot, sometimes not.

A perfectly flown autopilot approach to an auto land is a great option to have.  But, in a stiff cross wind, which is usually is accompanied by gusts, the rubber has to meet the runway at some point.  Doing so in a crab results in an uncomfortable event.  The real life pilots will, of course, know and embrace an age old Chinese landing technique; "One Wing Low" that normally occurs at the end of any perfectly flown approach in crosswinds, regardless if George, the auto pilot, flew it or it was hand flown, because it comes down to the skills of the pilot.

That is, unless auto pilot/auto land technology has advanced to the point that George has the skill to lower the upwind wing, apply opposite rudder, adjust power, and flair to a perfectly smooth touchdown with the fuselage aligned with the runway centerline; all at just the right time.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 10:20:41 AM by Puma44 »



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Wolfala

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4875
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2012, 10:29:13 AM »
Cat3c auto land isn't available at all airports and not every aircrew will be qualified in them due to the frequency of use (or lack thereof). GA does not have an auto land autopilot, though a parachute is a close qualifier. Our APs do a pretty good job of getting us through and reducing workload as needed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeVmUNdnyBQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Attached is a normal hard ifr approach one is expected to be capable of flying by hand without automated assistance. Saturday I was picking a client up from Martha's Vinyard and when it was Vfr 10 minutes before, it went down to 1/2 and snow. Someone that isn't a differences engine needs to make the judgment call. That's why you are there. 


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2012, 04:51:03 PM »
Couple guys come to mind that would have little issue with this
* Golfer - since he's a Collins Primus baby and the FMS is of the same lineage on most main liners.
* Colombo since he drives big iron and used to drive a B-24 for a living
* Machfly because, well - I've taught him so he can.
* mySelf because I'm awesome
* Frenchy because the guy has a pair that drags and he could fly himself out of a Turkish potatohouse with 4 inches of ice on his wings, no AP, no GPS, a 1/2 working radio and still do a cat. III approach to an icy runway with nil breaking in a VW microbus with wings.

 :rofl Thx for the back stroking, but I'm not the only cargo pilot that does that for a living ... by far  :joystick:

Now if I might contribute to the thread, I had a student in my other life that claimed he had 1,200H+ of Microsoft Flight Simulator. He did very good with the initial flight pitch/bank/attitude/altitude control actually. When coming for landing as he was getting closer and closer to the runway he kept over correcting to the point where he would have lost control of the plane. When I asked for the controls he didn't want to give them back and I had to physically hit him to let go and land the plane.

I guess the moral of the story is don't be fooled in thinking because you are a sim ace you'll save the day. The pressure/stress of having to do it in real life might get the best of you.  :old: As far as which plane, I think jet airliners and cessna type trainers would be 'ok', light twins and definitely turboprops would seriously lower the chances of success.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Tordon22

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1607
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2012, 06:37:00 PM »
Off topic but, I've been flying in my first cessna type aircraft (182S) since Monday after spending all my previous time in piper cherokees and seminoles. Whoa, what a difference. Sinks like a rock so power off 180's are fun, but I was struggling to find a power setting for final approach on normal/short/soft landings. Today was better. My other problem has been that the rudders on this plane seem ridiculously light. I'm over controlling them like no other, but improving. Although I accidentally caused a tiny skid yesterday. Definately caught my attention though.

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Pilot and Co-Pilot are incompacitated....
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2012, 06:44:13 PM »
Cherokees are easier to land safely, cessnas are easier to land well. Also keep in mind your nose gear isn't directly connected to the rudders like in a cherokee, so if you touch down with a bit of rudder in a slip the plane wont veer.
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."