How do you approach a Spit?

[Big Rat]

i was just coming here to say the same thing   

by the way what plane do you want to work with (in case it's something I'm rusty in I can get in some flight time first )?

[uptown]

KI84,109F, 109G6, or any 38 would be my picks but whatever you suggest would be fine and dandy with me.

[Tank-Ace]

tips for engaging the spitfire:

1) NEVER take them lightly if you're unsure of the pilot skill level. If you take it lightly, you'll get sloppy, if you get sloppy, you end up slightly dead.

2) see what advantages you have, be it speed, climb, turning, a relative E advantage, and use it. If you don't have one, then make one.

3 (2 cont.)) if you're a bit leery of your odds, back off; wait and reposition, make your odds more favorable.

4) if you are BEING engaged, decide if you can make him react to what you do inside of a minute; if you can't, then high-tail it out of there. Theres no shame in running, and besides, if its not running, its denying a kill to that "skill-less putz in the crutch ride".

5) remember speed, spits turn less and less well as the speeds increase. In a hard spiral dive, planes like the P-40 out turn a spitfire. Just set a floor altitude to stop at, so you don't blow all your E.



6) if suspicious of the spitfire, you should be: its a freaking spitfire; expect, and prepare for, some BS move that kicks your feet out from under you. When the ~99% of spitfires you will encounter totaly botch the job, and drop infront of your guns, you're always plesanty suprised.

[JOACH1M]

Spits in the rolling scissors make easy kills. Use angles to make distance between you and the spit, chop throttle kick rudder to aim and shoot!  Brewsters on the other hand...


This is when I'm in a 109 or 190.

[ACE]

Spits in the rolling scissors make easy kills. Use angles to make distance between you and the spit, chop throttle kick rudder to aim and shoot!  Brewsters on the other hand...


This is when I'm in a 109 or 190.

I love baiting people in real,close while flying a 190 then just chop throtle and start a sissor

[olds442]

I do this like thing where i just like fly into them.

[Rich52]

The other day I lost to a good pony pilot while in a KI-84 cause I did my usual thing, while in a climber against a B&Z'er, slowed him up and got him in a spiral turn fight until he gets flat and slow. The problem was I was new to the KI and we were at 8 to 12k and I didnt realize the KI loses much of its climb advanatge over the 51 at those Alts and I couldnt figure out how that Mustang was staying with me. I ran out of Wep first and that was that. I was pretty much stuck cause if I dove he'd outdive me, tho if I had to do it again I'd have worked him up or down in Alt to get the advantage again.

The point is I lost cause I didnt know the performance stack up of the KI vs the 51D. I assumed at anything under 20K the KI would outclimb it. Thats why the better sticks in the game have flown pretty much all the aircraft and know how they stack up against each other. A habit I wish I'd picked up when I started.

[grizz441]

The other day I lost to a good pony pilot while in a KI-84 cause I did my usual thing, while in a climber against a B&Z'er, slowed him up and got him in a spiral turn fight until he gets flat and slow. The problem was I was new to the KI and we were at 8 to 12k and I didnt realize the KI loses much of its climb advanatge over the 51 at those Alts and I couldnt figure out how that Mustang was staying with me. I ran out of Wep first and that was that. I was pretty much stuck cause if I dove he'd outdive me, tho if I had to do it again I'd have worked him up or down in Alt to get the advantage again.

The point is I lost cause I didnt know the performance stack up of the KI vs the 51D. I assumed at anything under 20K the KI would outclimb it. Thats why the better sticks in the game have flown pretty much all the aircraft and know how they stack up against each other. A habit I wish I'd picked up when I started.

In that matchup you should be able to get pretty sloppy and still win, since the Ki84 dominates the 51 in turn rate and turn radius at all low speeds.

[ink]

In that matchup you should be able to get pretty sloppy and still win, since the Ki84 dominates the 51 in turn rate and turn radius at all low speeds.

thats what I was thinking.....


also the WEP recharges in the KI just as fast as it goes.


Rich if the pony tries to turn fight you in anyway chop throttle and pull out those flaps when going over the top, use hard rudder to whip that sucker around, it has a viscous reversal that 51's have no chance of keeping up with....even a well flown pony stands no chance against a KI.....being new to it is why you lost....lots of people give her up because of the little quirks, keep at it and you will find very few planes stand a chance against it 1vs1

similar to the LA7.....any plane it cant out turn it will out climb, and vice versa.   

[ACE]

Did the pony pilot keep you fast?  If so he's a smart one

[ink]

Did the pony pilot keep you fast?  If so he's a smart one

the only thing a 51 can do against a well flown KI is run.

[JOACH1M]

the only thing a 51 can do against a well flown KI is run.

Eh, or try to force the ki to get going 320 and do a hard turn and cut back with flaps and hope it worked 

[ink]

Eh, or try to force the ki to get going 320 and do a hard turn and cut back with flaps and hope it worked 

wont work


the 51 needs to get the KI faster then that before it could use the Hi speed maneuverability advantage it has.

no smart KI driver  is gonna let that happen.

[Ruah]

I'm glad I came back to this. But what is a barrelroll reversal ? You mean attempt to get the spit to overshoot with a barrelroll?

More then a barelroll reversal - the 47 has to use the vector roll to cut the corner and maintain e and slowly gain an e advantage (or more like try to hang onto you e for as long as you can to make shop opportunities).  The difficult thing for the 47 is that it is a great fighter going downhill, not so hot going uphill unless you master that strange flip thing they do. . . which is defiantly for the advanced 47 pilot since it has a lot of timing involved and a 'desperation' move.

Anyway - with a spit, I try to create separation and work the angles in the vertical.  And by separation i am not talking about distance (extension lateral or horizontal) but a relationship (e and g) that entices the spit to pull into you.  Ultimately though, i assume that every spit fight is an e/angles fight and you just have to force them to either fly slower or faster then their optimal and since I usually fly e planes (109 and KIs), it is just about bleeding them slowly. I think 47s need to start with an e advantage and bnz and don't miss.  That is to say, force the opponent to fly in your strong suits and don't get suckered into their game. . . but that is the same for all planes.

[Rich52]

Oh the fight went on and on. It wasnt like I was easy meat. But for the life of me I couldnt figure out why the 51 was able to climb with me. Now that I know I would do things different. The point is "knowing". It could have come down to a 3/4th tank of gas that I had, a 1/4th for him, and the fact he just just plain better then I and more knowledgeable.

It wont happen again I can tell you that.

the only thing a 51 can do against a well flown KI is run.

No, instead I "kept him slow". Which is why it as so dang weird, even tho he bounced me from high and I never had an advantage i should have been able to wiggle out of it. Ive done it in Yaks against 51s and 47s but i couldnt do it at this alt with this 51.