KI-84 ? Is it Dissed?

[nrshida]

I feel this thread has rather been diverted from its original intention 

[tunnelrat]

I feel this thread has rather been diverted from its original intention 

 

[coombz]

Assume I say they take 5.5 Gs worth of load in a 3 G turn, and 8.5 Gs of load in a 6 G turn, where do you come up with a 30° flex?

 

[Masherbrum]

 What do you think?

  The silliness of what you are saying can be summed by this: Can you see the difference in wing flexing from 3 Gs to 6 Gs? It is probably visible, but not by much...

  The wings are made to take 12-14 Gs without permanent deformation: Assume I say they take 5.5 Gs worth of load in a 3 G turn, and 8.5 Gs of load in a 6 G turn, where do you come up with a 30° flex?

  The real issue woud be the extra drag, but then extra drag compared to what? If it's compared to a jet, then that woud explain why a same wingload Vampire easiy out-turns a Spitfire Mk XIV (gaining about 90° per 360, which is huge) despite the fact that the Spitfire doesn't lose thrust at lower speeds, and has the superior extra power to easily out-climb it by a wide margin...

  People clinging to their theories point out the Vampire has about a 4% lesser wingoad, leading naturally to a 20-25% gain in turn time I'm sure

  Gaston

Anytime you want to make your own Sim........oh yeah I forgot.   

[firemike]

When I fight a Ki-84 i always seem to be facing a great pilot and I always die I fly the 84 as well and it's a great aircraft mainly in turn and climb

[Gaston]

Enough silliness.

The Spitfire XIV vs Vampire tests

Vampire I climbed just as well as the Spitfire XIV, if not a little better, had much more power and lower wing loading...

Gaston, you believe RAF tests when you think they support your conclusions, but ignore them when they don't. Why is that?

  And where did you get that the Spitfire Mk XIV does not outclimb the Vampire?

  It starts out at 5500 ft/min vs 4800 ft/min for the Vampire, and only goes below 4800 ft/min. at around 18 000 ft.

  http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14climbchart.jpg

  I think it was actually stated in the comparison that the Spitfire XIV outclimbed the Vampire.

  Besides, nothing in the climb rate differences or the wingload differences explains the 25% gain per 360° that the Vampire enjoys in sustained low-speed turns, with a specified smaller turn radius achieved by the Vampire (NOT higher speed on a broader radius).

  Gaston

[Karnak]

Gaston,

You never responded to the questions about where you think a magical extra 2.5 Gs of loading come from in a 3 G turn.  You stated that you believe something that is physically impossible.  I would really like to know why you think a 3 G turn could produce 5.5 Gs of loading.

[Jabberwock]

 And where did you get that the Spitfire Mk XIV does not outclimb the Vampire?

  It starts out at 5500 ft/min vs 4800 ft/min for the Vampire, and only goes below 4800 ft/min. at around 18 000 ft.

  http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14climbchart.jpg

Congratulations Gaston, you've just proved your total inability to read a graph.

If you'd bothered to read it correctly, you'd see that the Mk XIV has a 4,700 ft/min rate of climb in the graph as denoted by the line with the short dash, long line combination.

In comparison, the Hornet Mk I has the 5500 ft/min rate of climb, as denoted by the solid black line.

No Vampire on that graph at all

Whoopsie daisy!

 I think it was actually stated in the comparison that the Spitfire XIV outclimbed the Vampire.

Prove it.

Just for once…

 Besides, nothing in the climb rate differences or the wingload differences explains the 25% gain per 360° that the Vampire enjoys in sustained low-speed turns, with a specified smaller turn radius achieved by the Vampire (NOT higher speed on a broader radius).

  Gaston

Tempest V vs Meteor III trials also show that a jet can turn inside a prop and gain a firing solution in four turns.

[nrshida]

Gaston! 


What about my 'Humming Bird' theory of wing flexing? I thought you could work that into your anti-physics dissertation somewhere.

  Besides, nothing in the climb rate differences or the wingload differences explains the 25% gain per 360° that the Vampire enjoys in sustained low-speed turns, with a specified smaller turn radius achieved by the Vampire (NOT higher speed on a broader radius).

This is an anomaly though surely, I mean how does this figure into your short nosed-prop disk theory, since the Vampire doesn't have one (a prop disk I mean, not a nose, of course it has a nose otherwise how would it smell, lolz)?


So anyway Gaston, what is your opinion on the Ki-84? Would you say it is dissed amongst the active players of Aces High?