ACM vs. SA

[Wofat]

Gentle men and lady,

What are your thought on Air Combat Maneuvers (ACM) vs. Situational Awareness (SA)?  Pretending that they two diff thing in this context please.

I find SA MUCH more important than ACM.  Knowing who is where, at what altitudes and relative speed more value than tricky-dicky plane man new vers.  Further more...if I get vulched, ho'd or killed in any way I find 95% reason was letting self be made into a fire solution for sum one.  So I just salute them as they earn the kill (vulch, ho etc.).  I let them get fire solution on me so they earn salute seem truth!

Hope I make English well.  I say SA more important than ACM by far!

What you think? What you experience?  Please share.

Thank you,

Wofat 

[mthrockmor]

Definitely agree with you.

1v1 fights, of course ACM is everything. Sadly, tough to find 1v1s in Main Arena. Most are some sort of horde/furball. This means being aware of everything around you as you make attacks. And being aware of everyting around you means if you attempt to stick to one attack - a pittbull on a bone - some bad guy is going to saddle up on you and send you to the tower. SA demands short leads, snap shots and evasive action.

I've heard of a Russian saying: There are old pilots and bold pilots; never old, bold pilots. I take this to mean those who won't 'let go of the bone' and are easily killed by a wingman.

Boo

[HighTone]

Gentle men and lady,

What are your thought on Air Combat Maneuvers (ACM) vs. Situational Awareness (SA)?  Pretending that they two diff thing in this context please.

I find SA MUCH more important than ACM.  Knowing who is where, at what altitudes and relative speed more value than tricky-dicky plane man new vers.  Further more...if I get vulched, ho'd or killed in any way I find 95% reason was letting self be made into a fire solution for sum one.  So I just salute them as they earn the kill (vulch, ho etc.).  I let them get fire solution on me so they earn salute seem truth!

Hope I make English well.  I say SA more important than ACM by far!

What you think? What you experience?  Please share.

Thank you,

Wofat 

I agree. If your SA isn't up to par then you won't get a chance to use those ACM's.

[Karnak]

I fondly recall encountering two Bf110G-2s flying in very tight formation at about 10,000ft.  The #2 ship was about 50ft behind and to the side of the #1 ship and they were holding it beautifully.

I have no idea how they were at ACM because my Mossie killed both of them in the space of one second.

[BigR]

Even for a completely theoretical exercise, there really isn't a way to separate the two. They go hand in hand. The best stick and rudder guys in the game also have the best SA. Flying at 20k, only engaging when you have the advantage isn't necessarily demonstrating good SA. Taking off from a capped base isn't really displaying bad SA either. It all depends on what your goals are. If I know damn well that I will get vulched but I take off anyway, does that mean I have bad SA? Not at all. There are a lot of reasons I would do that.

[GradeyShane]

In my experience, I use more ACM when my SA goes to crap as I get myself into more situations where drastic ACM are required  

When Im really clicking my SA allows me to get easier kills while remaining out of danger and moving above, outside the reach of my enemy.

SA > ACM for Main Arena fights at least.  IMO im at the point my SA is pretty decent but ACM (ie 1v1 fights) I am still working to get on point..yeehaw for DFC!  

[LilMak]

SA is critical to ACM. If you don't know where the bad guy is, it doesn't matter how good you are. SA degrades as more enemies enter the fight. I effectively track about three enemies in a single engagement. After that I loose the picture and it's only a matter of time before I get picked off. The only exception to this is when I come in on top of the horde and can manage to keep the furball below me and engage singles as they climb up.

[Lusche]

and if we really get into nitpicking, there are different types of "SA" as well. The true situational awareness, when one is watching the immediate surroundings, tracking firends and foes, assessing energy states and so on...
... and the "battle awareness", which extends beyond the icon / dot rendering distance, fed by closely monitoring and interpreting text channels and clipboard data. I'm often amazed about how many players simply fail at the latter one 

[Wiley]

The biggest advances in my capabilities have by far come from improvements in SA.  It's the foundation for everything.  Without it, you don't know which of your arsenal of ACMs to deploy when.

Wiley.

[Changeup]

SA.

Without it, you're just driving your a/c.  ACM for 1 v 1's because you don't need to worry about anyone other than your single opponent.

From Top Gun:

Charlie:  "What were you thinking? you made an aggressive, vertical move and you should have split-S'd"(ACM)

Maverick: "if you think, you die

Viper:  "It's better to select zone 5 (full, military speed, afterburner) and escape and save your a/c than to push a bad position (SA)....you made a bad choice".

[Vinkman]

For staying alive, there is little doubt that SA hold more weight than ACM. That is the vast majority of fighter pilots were pack hunters and B&Z specialists.

But the exact opposite is true for which is more import to having fun. Stall fighting in non identical airplanes is the best part of the game for me.   so I do it every chance I get. My kill ratio is pretty lousy because of it.  

[Shuffler]

SA first......  ACM second.

If you don't see them, you can't fight them.

[Widewing]

SA first......  ACM second.

If you don't see them, you can't fight them.

That's it in a nut shell.... You can be the best 1v1 pilot in the game, aided by the fact that you don't need much situational awareness to duel. However, in the MA, without solid SA skills, you won't see the SOB and never get an opportunity to demonstrate those ACM and aircraft control skills.

[Wiley]

When I mentioned SA in my previous post, I was referring in large part to awareness of what your opponent is doing.  I think in 1v1s, it's paramount to be able to read his E state, what maneuver he's executing and what that means his next one might be, etc.  It's a large component of dueling as well as furballing IMO.

Wiley.

[JOACH1M]

ACM, over SA.

Yea with good SA you know what your odds of living a fight are, but if when the fight goes down SA doesn't matter anymore ACM will get the job done. Bad ACM pilot just run and people who are lame