Author Topic: Collisions  (Read 12183 times)

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #225 on: April 09, 2012, 10:58:12 AM »
See what I mean ...
:uhoh


Not actually.  I have no idea what you mean.  What you quoted is quite true.  The film representing the two realities is quite accurate.  It is a fact, not an opinion.
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Offline grizz441

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #226 on: April 09, 2012, 11:03:21 AM »
EVZ yes or no question.  There would be more whines if people were dying to collisions they did not see.  Yes or no?

Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #227 on: April 09, 2012, 11:04:22 AM »
I am not insisting anything.  You are the one that is insisting you take damage when you avoid a collision if the other player does not.
I am suggesting, that EVERYONE participating in a mid air collision CRASH ... Not interested in who got lucky or who knew how to create a collision and escape it, etc. I havn't INSISTED on anything, aside from believing what -I- choose to believe, regardless of the consensual pressure being applied.

I asked you questions you refused to answer.
You asked me PERSONAL QUESTIONS and, once again, this is NOT a personal issue (for me anyway).
:cool:
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #228 on: April 09, 2012, 11:05:05 AM »
dA collision in which BOTH PLANES go down is never going to make anyone HAPPY ... But it WILL be accepted as FAIR (in most cases) ... I would expect the complaints to be very similar to the "shot down when he wasn't even pointing at me" complaints and they can be explained with exactly the same explanation ... Not only will it be perceived as FAIR, it's consistant.
:angel:
This here is where you are completely wrong.  It is not at all fair to go down to a collision I had no chance of avoiding because it didn't even look like a collision was going to happen on my end.  It is not at all fair to go down to a collision that I worked to avoid but my adversary worked to ensure.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #229 on: April 09, 2012, 11:06:48 AM »
I'm pretty sure -I- never said that

However it IS the consequence of the way you want it to work.  If you want both planes to go down, if the other guy runs into your aircraft, you will get a collision with no visible collision occurring on your FE.  Your plane will be damaged effectively by an 'invisible plane' because your FE is displaying one thing, and being damaged by another.

Quote
... Several people keep suggesting that I'm crazy BECAUSE this would make me happy ... That's THEIR PERCEPTION and it's due to their inability to ACCEPT an opinion that differs from their own without rationalizing (demonizing) it into something with senseless implications. Kind of like skuzzy insisting that -I- want to take damage when -I- escape a collision. This is NOT a PERSONAL ISSUE ...

You keep saying people will see it as fair.  The logical extension is, YOU would see it as fair if your plane collided with an invisible plane even though you were nowhere near another aircraft.

Quote
A collision in which BOTH PLANES go down is never going to make anyone HAPPY ... But it WILL be accepted as FAIR (in most cases)

Why, when there was no collision on one person's end?

Quote
... I would expect the complaints to be very similar to the "shot down when he wasn't even pointing at me" complaints and they can be explained with exactly the same explanation ... Not only will it be perceived as FAIR, it's consistant.
:angel:

It's not the same thing though.  When you're getting shot at, at some point you flew in front of the guy.  Unless it was a particularly bad lag event, you can see that you flew in front of your aircraft and gave him an opportunity to put bullets into you, regardless of when the damage sorts itself through the network and you receive it.

In a collision, you have the opportunity to see the other plane come in, and miss you by a wide margin, and you still take damage.  The collision happens relatively slowly compared to gunnery.  You have way more opportunity to see the plane coming, and avoid it than you do a bullet.  That is why it should be as it is, because if you see a plane coming and pull to avoid it, and see you avoided it, and then take damage anyways, that is going to be much more frustrating than the occasional snapshot that arrives late.

In the 2 years and change I've been here, I can count on one hand the number of times I saw funny gunnery due to lag.  I've lost count of the number of collisions I've avoided.  The one happens much more often than the other.  'Consistency' is not the right choice in this case.

See what I mean ...
:uhoh

It is not an illustration, EVZ.  It is a recording of ingame footage from two players on separate computers flying in the game.  One flying a P47, one flying a P51.  They recorded a collision between them.  That gif is the two videos superimposed over one another, time synchronized.  Please explain what about that is not 'fact'?

Wiley.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #230 on: April 09, 2012, 11:08:26 AM »
I am suggesting, that EVERYONE participating in a mid air collision CRASH ...


And this is how it is actually happening now.

If you are NOT participating, if you are evading a collision - you do not take damage. With your proposal, you might take damage even if you fully and clearly evade.

It really is that simple.


If I evade I do not take damage. You want to change that and don't expect players to be much more upset, when they randomly explode without ANY physical contact to an enemy plane?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 11:10:31 AM by Lusche »
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #231 on: April 09, 2012, 11:08:54 AM »
Not actually.  I have no idea what you mean.  What you quoted is quite true.  The film representing the two realities is quite accurate.  It is a fact, not an opinion.
and it shows 2 individual pilots flying 2 aircraft ... not 4 individual pilots flying 4 aircraft ... Wiley disgrees ... I don't think he "Gets It". I think he WANTS to think he gets it, but he's been (unintentionally) misled and confused.
:uhoh

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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #232 on: April 09, 2012, 11:10:14 AM »

And this is how it is actually happening now.

If you are NOT participating, if you are evading a collision - you do not take damage. With your proposal, you mightl take damage even if you fully and clearly evade.

It really is that simple.

Not for him it isn't...
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #233 on: April 09, 2012, 11:11:59 AM »
I am suggesting, that EVERYONE participating in a mid air collision CRASH ... Not interested in who got lucky or who knew how to create a collision and escape it, etc. I havn't INSISTED on anything, aside from believing what -I- choose to believe, regardless of the consensual pressure being applied.

And that is what I said.  "You are the one that is insisting you take damage when you avoid a collision if the other player does not."

If that is not true, then please explain.

Right now, everyone who detects a collision takes damage.  How does that differ from what you want?


You asked me PERSONAL QUESTIONS and, once again, this is NOT a personal issue (for me anyway).
:cool:

How is this a personal question?

EVZ, I would really like to hear how you think collisions currently work in the following scenarios.

1)  You collide and take damage and the other plane flies away.
2)  You do not collide but the other plane takes damage and you fly away.
3)  You both collide and take damage.

Please be as detailed as possible.

It is pertinent to the discussion and not personal at all.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #234 on: April 09, 2012, 11:12:12 AM »
and it shows 2 individual pilots flying 2 aircraft ... not 4 individual pilots flying 4 aircraft ...

No, it's showing 2 players with 4 planes in 2 different realities. As long as you think there are only two planes, you are on the wrong track.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #235 on: April 09, 2012, 11:18:20 AM »
and it shows 2 individual pilots flying 2 aircraft ... not 4 individual pilots flying 4 aircraft ... Wiley disgrees ... I don't think he "Gets It". I think he WANTS to think he gets it, but he's been (unintentionally) misled and confused.
:uhoh

It is showing where the two front ends are showing the two aircraft.  The video has the 2 P47s overlaid as it is not maneuvering.  It clearly shows the P51 collide on its end with the P47 as it is displayed on its end, and it shows the P47's end seeing the P51 3 planelengths back from it.  This is recorded in realtime.  What about this is not fact?

Wiley.
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #236 on: April 09, 2012, 11:22:16 AM »
However it IS the consequence of the way you want it to work - The logical extension is - YOU would see it as  -
Intersting, YOU decide what someone is REALLY saying, YOU put words into their mouth, then YOU argue about WHY what YOU say they said was wrong ... and YOU always win ... Big suprise!

It is not an illustration, EVZ.
Maybe you misunderstand the word illustration ... Yes it's a film, not a cartoon ... it's PURPOSE is to ILLUSTRATE ... Got a good dictionary?
:rolleyes:
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #237 on: April 09, 2012, 11:30:48 AM »
Maybe you misunderstand the word illustration ... Yes it's a film, not a cartoon ... it's PURPOSE is to ILLUSTRATE ... Got a good dictionary?
:rolleyes:

Just clarifying.  It is a factual represenation of how and why the collision system works the way it does.
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #238 on: April 09, 2012, 11:33:52 AM »
And that is what I said.  "You are the one that is insisting you take damage when you avoid a collision if the other player does not."
If that is not true, then please explain.
Please quote to me WHERE -I- "insist" on anything? I want, I think, I believe ... yes ... I do... I INSIST ...??? Don't think so.

How is this a personal question?

_You_  collide,  _You_  do not,  _You_  both ...  fishing expedition?
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #239 on: April 09, 2012, 11:35:25 AM »
This is the best thread EVER  :rock
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