Author Topic: limit the tiger and tiger 2  (Read 2953 times)

Offline Butcher

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2012, 08:10:13 PM »

Really, counting the threat from aircraft, the Panther isn't worth the 20 perks when you're attacking. The Firefly isn't worth its 15 or so, the Tiger I isn't worth the 30 perks when on the offensive. And the Tiger II certinally isn't worth 200. When you look at things overall, the perk price best reflects their value when on the defensive. In other words, when you have time to find a good possition that offers both cover and a wide field of fire, and are almost guaranteed some flank protection.

If you are spawning a panther into a base with NO friendly air cover, yeah you are an idiot, however I routinely attack with a Panther and have no  problem - it surprises the enemy who think they can sit in a cushy panther and defend against only Panzer 4's.

You might not understand attacking to well, quite a number of times I've seen a Tiger, Panther on the attack you have to know whose around you and what support you have. Nobody will bindly run a Panther into a spawn without knowing whats going on.


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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2012, 08:19:21 PM »
I'm not saying they can't be effective on the offensive, or that they're not usefull; I was one of the most agressive players when I still had an account. I'm still a big advocate of offensive GV use.


But I'm saying that, counting the threat of air attack, the Tiger I isn't 30 perks effective. I could be more usefull by upping 15 M4's at 2 perks a piece, simply because I'm a lower value target, which means I last longer and have more time to make kills and do damage.


And again, thats not to say that tanks like the Tiger I and panther don't have their places; they can do things that an M4 can't, such as long-range engagments with heavy armor, slugging it out with other perk tanks, and going forward to shift some stuborn defenders.

However, they still don't usually do the same ammount of damage that 15 M4's couldn't do individually. They do it in a shorter span of time, and can push situations more, but they still don't equal 15 M4's worth of effectivness.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2012, 08:31:42 PM »
However, they still don't usually do the same ammount of damage that 15 M4's couldn't do individually. They do it in a shorter span of time, and can push situations more, but they still don't equal 15 M4's worth of effectivness.

And one panther can easily knock out 15 M4s in a short span. Hence why you need panthers/tigers to escort these wimpy tanks.
JG 52

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2012, 09:52:33 PM »
If the M4's decide to try and lemming-charge the panther, yeah. But if I can kill a Panther in an M8 while hes aware of me, I'm fairly certian that I can take on just about any Panther ever born in an M4.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2012, 08:46:00 AM »
If the M4's decide to try and lemming-charge the panther, yeah. But if I can kill a Panther in an M8 while hes aware of me, I'm fairly certian that I can take on just about any Panther ever born in an M4.

Against a decent tanker, you have no chance to sneak up on a Panther, regardless of what you are in.

Against 8435039 in a panther, sure an M8 can kill even a King Tiger.

Ask LT, snuck up on his King Tiger in an M3 and pinged him 10 times but no kills from under 200 behind him, again decent tanker = forget it
JG 52

Offline VonMessa

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM »
The bottom line is that Tigers are very adept at base defense as well they should be.

At the end of the day, combined arms is what is going to win the base.  The days of errant and frequent, 2-person base captures are long gone.
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Offline Butcher

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2012, 09:08:12 AM »
The bottom line is that Tigers are very adept at base defense as well they should be.

At the end of the day, combined arms is what is going to win the base.  The days of errant and frequent, 2-person base captures are long gone.

It only happens during wee hours of the morning, but yeah 2 person attacks are quite rare otherwise.
I can remember the days of a pair of Me110s, a N1k and a goon/m3 to take a base.
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2012, 09:12:19 AM »
It only happens during wee hours of the morning, but yeah 2 person attacks are quite rare otherwise.
I can remember the days of a pair of Me110s, a N1k and a goon/m3 to take a base.


So can I  :D
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Offline Hoffman

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Re: limit the tiger and tiger 2
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2012, 11:40:29 AM »
1.  What if hangers need to be maintained in order to ensure the captured base can be imediatley defended?...
  If you can't hold the base long enough for the hangars to come back up you don't have enough people to take the base in the first place.  You have nearly the same distance to spawn in and advance to the base as the other team, with the advantage of now holding the base and having buildings for cover.  It can take nearly 10 minutes to drive a tank just within range to shoot a base, let alone move onto and secure it for capture.  Plenty of time for the hangars to come back up.
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I'm already thinking ahead of you, because your angle is as blatantly made clear in your post, as your knowledge of the superb  "dive" bombing characteristics of a fully laden A20, and admiting that it's gaming the game to frustrate those trying to capture a field in it....
:headscratch:  Huh?   My point is that if you want to capture the base, and your ground forces are ineffective, and the enemy is sitting on concrete gaming the game, then the option and capability to remove his ability to game the game is there. Blow up the damn hangars, then force them to tower out or die.

Forcing me to buy a Tiger or Tiger 2 and then kill dozens of tanks just to pay for that single sortie is stupid. If I lose it, oh well I lost the tank, that's the game. I knew that risk when I pushed the button.
But punishing me for even taking it out of the hangar? Toejam that. Do that and you'll only ever see them in two locations, on a mountain overlooking V135 with 300 kills and a dedicated M3 to resupply them. ( Yay I now have 10 net perks... owait I could be down there in a IVF and have gotten 10 times that for 1/3rd of the kills and not be paranoid about every shadow.)  Or 10Km away from V85 playing sniper and running everytime a CV gets close to shore.
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...because Vbases are routinely spaced with enough distance to allow a group of players to make multiple respullying M3 trips before enemy tigers and panthers roll in to secure the recently captured but undefended field?
 
Actually... yes.  You can get 1, probably 2 trips in with an M3 before a Tiger or Panther is in range of the Vbase.  Depending on terrain. If they leave at the same time. If you actually have people who decide to resupply the base you can get a hangar up in one run.
And after capping a blown up Vbase... anyone who then towers out and runs off and leaves it undefended... deserves to have it retaken 5 minutes later.

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2. Planes can cause notable damage to tanks via strafing, in real-life and in this game... but, why are you (and most everyone else in this game) only familiar with their threat if they come in raining heavy ordnance?...

There are only two aircraft I pay attention to when ordnance is down. Hurri 2d, or IL2.  Anything else is ignored.  Oh look you knocked out my pintle gun... like I ever use that against anything but a Storch and the co-ax is just as effective.   I might get tracked, but the odds of that happening are pretty much nill.  I've been tracked three.. maybe four times in the past year. Two from tanks, the others from near-misses by bombs.
.50 cals, 20 and 30 MM HE rounds, are pretty much useless against tanks.  You might get a mobility kill here and there but for the most part it isn't worth the time.  You're better off hunting M3's and M-18's with those rounds.

Bombs are certain kills if you know how to aim, can be dropped out of range of AAA, and are rather satisfying to throw at someone who has been camping a spawn for the past hour and a half.