Author Topic: P-40 fuel tanks  (Read 1430 times)

Offline caldera

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P-40 fuel tanks
« on: April 15, 2012, 01:05:00 PM »
IIRC, the old P-40s had two fuel tanks: main and fuselage.  Now they have fuselage, forward and aft tanks.  Any benefit to manual fuel tank select and what order is best?
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 03:14:04 PM »
Well on the 190's, you want to burn the aft tanks. Aside from that I haven't a clue as to what the best order for fuel burn on the P-40 is.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »
All in all... just let the computer do it for you.   

The only exception is the F4U models with the wing tanks: burn the left wing tank first, it helps the wing from dipping too early (stall out).  Not only is that true in AH, it is true in the real deal as well.  Start video at 12:20 min   :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpxyyLQ7u7g

Other than that, if people *really* think that draining certain fuel tanks before other will improve their chances of survival or their ability to perform -that- much better... then let them keep their sanity.  They are probably the same kool-aid drinkers that fire off all the .30 cal MG ammo from the Mossi and the 8mm MG rear gunner ammo "to get rid of extra weight so it can turn better".  I'll be happy to test out any theories with the diehards. 

The P47 may benefit from burning 1 tank before the other because it is the most likely first point of damage.  That is a damage issue not a performance issue though.   
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Offline Rino

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 06:26:32 PM »
     Good idea to burn off the aux tank in the 51s first.
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Offline curry1

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 08:14:46 PM »
     Good idea to burn off the aux tank in the 51s first.

Oh yeah agree there
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Offline Full Metal Jug

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 04:55:01 AM »
All in all... just let the computer do it for you.   

The only exception is the F4U models with the wing tanks: burn the left wing tank first, it helps the wing from dipping too early (stall out).  Not only is that true in AH, it is true in the real deal as well.  Start video at 12:20 min   :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpxyyLQ7u7g

Other than that, if people *really* think that draining certain fuel tanks before other will improve their chances of survival or their ability to perform -that- much better... then let them keep their sanity.  They are probably the same kool-aid drinkers that fire off all the .30 cal MG ammo from the Mossi and the 8mm MG rear gunner ammo "to get rid of extra weight so it can turn better".  I'll be happy to test out any theories with the diehards. 

The P47 may benefit from burning 1 tank before the other because it is the most likely first point of damage.  That is a damage issue not a performance issue though.   

I know on the N you want to burn out both wings if you're loaded, either that or burn one and turn only one way really good.

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Offline Denniss

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 05:19:16 AM »
In the real world they had to use the fuselage tank first (at least to a certain mark) as there was a fuel return line from the carburetor back to this tank.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 03:11:56 PM »
Oh yeah agree there

oh?  What for?
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Offline JOACH1M

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 07:01:24 AM »
Well on the 190's, you want to burn the aft tanks. Aside from that I haven't a clue as to what the best order for fuel burn on the P-40 is.
I forgot we were talking about 190's...

Check this link out:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?53807-For-Kelti-P-40-fuel-tanks
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Offline branch37

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 08:36:59 AM »
oh?  What for?

IIRC the weight in the Aux tank in the 51 alters the planes center of gravity making it a little harder to control, and more prone to loss of control.  Burning the aux tank dry fixes the problem.

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 08:39:55 AM »
IIRC the weight in the Aux tank in the 51 alters the planes center of gravity making it a little harder to control, and more prone to loss of control.  Burning the aux tank dry fixes the problem.

"Loss of control"?  As in dipping the left wing?   :headscratch: 
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 08:15:44 PM »
I forgot we were talking about 190's...

Check this link out:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?53807-For-Kelti-P-40-fuel-tanks

Either you're trolling, or you're even dumber than I gave you credit for. The sad part is that its only about even money chances of it being a troll.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline MK-84

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 09:10:15 PM »
Couldn't we calculate the moment arm of the aircraft if we knew the exact location of each tank and each ones size?

With that information we could figure out how emptying one tank before the other would affect center of gravity.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to do any of that, but someone might?

As for my guess I think dumping the aft first then the center and finally the forward.  For the flying in AH I am thinking that we want the center of gravity as far forward as possible, keeping the tail end as light as possible.  My rationale is that in AH we would have a P40 that responds better to quick elevator movements and in a stallfight the tail seems to sit real low in a turn.  That has to add additional drag due to the P40 sorta "crabbing" around the turn.

Offline MK-84

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 09:23:05 PM »
I found this online, no real reference unfortunately but it's interesting regardless.

According the the WWII Training Manual for the P-40 (written primarily for the later models) :

"The fuselage tank is called the vented tank, which means there is an overflow line between this tank and the carburetor. The fuel line carries excess gas from the carburetor back to the fuselage tank. At high engine rpm, the fuel overflow may run as high as 10 or 15 gallons per hour.

Always use the fuselage tank for takeoff. During takeoff the chance of fuel overflow is especially high, and unless you are using the fuselage tank--the only one built to handle overflow gas--the overflow is lost.

After takeoff, always use at least 15 gallons from the fuselage tank before switching to another fuel tank.

The fuselage tank accumulates possible overflows from the other tanks during flight. Always turn the selector handle to the fuselage tank if it appears you have run out of gas. The fuselage tank probably contains a few gallons of overflow fuel."

The training manual later suggests: "Climb at a speed of 150-160 mph. When you reach 1000 feet, switch from the fuselage tank to the belly tank and fly on the belly tank until it is empty." I believe one of the considerations for doing this is that the belly tank does not have a fuel gage, so it is best to use this fuel first and have a known quantity in the other tanks.

Offline MK-84

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Re: P-40 fuel tanks
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 09:27:02 PM »
And also this, anecdotal but it's something to start with.

I'm looking at a reprint of the P-40D/E flight instructions from circa 1943. What's interesting is that in this POI, the startup instructions say to prime and start the engine on the reserve tank and to keep the selector valve on "Res." during preflight check and takeoff. Here is the sequence it gives for the tanks following takeoff:

c. Order of Fuel Tank Use.
Belly tank (if installed).
Fuselage tank.
Main tank.
Reserve tank.

d. Belly Tank.
(1) If the airplane is equipped with a belly tank, the fuel selector valve should be set at "BELLY" as soon at practicable after take-off.
(2) If the belly tank is dropped during flight, a slight heaviness will be observed.


     I've been searching around casually for the last hour and it seems that mostly everything I've found concerns burning fuel tanks in a specific order to prevent problems with the fuel system and not for performance gains.  This might make figuring out in AH (where those problems do not exist) what tank to burn first harder.