It is difficult to find a good fight...

[33Vortex]

Altitude, speed (in similar a/c engagement not necessarily so in dissimilar) and angle on target are factors to consider prior to the merge. If there is a difference in angle to target between the two aircraft the one with the lesser angle is at advantage. I think Torquila said it well, you set course as close to your adversary as possible without colliding, both at a level attitude and same alt. Maneuvering commence after the two a/c pass by eachother. Any maneuvering before that basically tell you that the other guy is cheating because he is reducing the angle which he has to turn to get you in his sights.

It was meant as advice to those who are interested in dueling, because the merge is decisive. Which is why people fly the way they do in the MA, where you never see anyone fly like that. Usually you set up a lead or lag turn.

[uptown]

Lol, that's what I meant, the dive in on a set deck merge... (sorry for being vague)

What!!! They do that?! No wonder I lose every duel I take part in. Cheaters!!!!


Them there duelers are tricky creatures

[cactuskooler]

I don't think I've ever fought a duel where one or both players hadn't tried to create some flight path separation before the merge to gain some angles with a lead turn, and this would be the first I've heard it being thought of as cheating.  It's part of the fight.  If keeping still till both planes pass is the idea, then you'll want to make sure the other guy knows so and agrees before calling him a cheater, because it's not the norm.

[33Vortex]

A duel is a duel, set within a certain frame of parameters. Whatever is agreed upon by the participants really. In the MA anything goes. No need to be sarcastic or make fun of it, unless you want to degrade yourself. Being the adult and mature person you are [uptown] of course you know that and I don't need to tell you.  

[33Vortex]

I don't think I've ever fought a duel where one or both players hadn't tried to create some flight path separation before the merge to gain some angles with a lead turn, and this would be the first I've heard it being thought of as cheating.  It's part of the fight.  If keeping still till both planes pass is the idea, then you'll want to make sure the other guy knows so and agrees before calling him a cheater, because it's not the norm.

Not the norm? Then you may just as well call the fighting in the MA dueling. Dueling is starting a fight on equal terms, the fight commence post-merge as soon as the planes pass each other. No maneuvering is allowed prior to the merge, this is the classic duel setup no exceptions. Maneuvering before the merge is cheating, if you believe otherwise you're misinformed.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Torquila]

I think hes touching on the part in persistant 1v1 scenarios when both people are used to each others flying styles and have possibly fought over the same spot more then a handful of times, it starts to become ok to set your plane at an angle or roll/pitch that will pre-empt the opening move.

But that is a rare case and usually only happens when both people are simultaneously aware of it and you will find that the majority of the time, both people know when the time is right. This does *not* occur in the MA, due to the open and random nature of fighting; thus no-one should expect to have any a-givens laid down other then what is normally expected.

[Bruv119]

most duelers just fly at each other with no HO and break before collision.

Some will dive down to get underneath their opponent, happens all the time in the MA, it isn't cheating you can dive down aswell to match their level or specify your set limits before hand.  

Deck merges eliminate this but most duelers will not break turn early or too late otherwise they are at risk of giving their 6 up easily.  

Dueling same types and same alts means that you cannot easily gain an energy advantage unless your opponent cuts throttle or repeatedly turns in too hard.   If your viewpoint is that the fight actually starts at the very top of both pilots climbs or whoever can get the most height advantage out of a series of manoeuvres then you are in the minority.

[33Vortex]

Pre-merge maneuvering is not part of the dueling concept no matter how you look at it. The whole point of a duel is to set aside the tactical pre-merge maneuvering occurring in a real combat situation, forcing a equal-terms engagement to determine who can make the most of a neutral situation. Because a duel is about determining pilot skill especially in similar aircraft engagements, less so in dissimilar. Any pre-merge maneuvering negates this purpose very effectively, which is why people are so keen on using such tactics.

I guess this is where the line is drawn between the tactician and the gamer mentality.

[cactuskooler]

Not the norm? Then you may just as well call the fighting in the MA dueling. Dueling is starting a fight on equal terms, the fight commence post-merge as soon as the planes pass each other. No maneuvering is allowed prior to the merge, this is the classic duel setup no exceptions. Maneuvering before the merge is cheating, if you believe otherwise you're misinformed.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Sure it's equal.  You can setup up your own angles, deny him his, or use his maneuvering against him.  It's part of the fight.  Nothing is being sneaked in behind your back. 

If such maneuvering is cheating then me and every other person I've ever dueled in this game is also unknowingly cheating.

If you want otherwise, let your partner know.  No big deal.

[Bruv119]

you have to move a little otherwise you will ram each other.  

I always wait until my opponent is just about flashing past,  as above.   Which is exactly what your looking for except your definition of a first merge is my definition of the second merge.  

[33Vortex]

If you want otherwise, let your partner know.  No big deal.

Very true, however the mentality in this game is different from what is taught at air combat schools. No big deal there, either. This is a game.

[FLS]

Very true, however the mentality in this game is different from what is taught at air combat schools. No big deal there, either. This is a game.

Which air combat school did you go to? Or which school of air combat are you referring to?

Do you really need to comment on people's mentality when you don't have a clue about what people are thinking? Should we speculate on your mentality for commenting on duels you don't participate in and your apparent disdain for people who don't play the game that you play the way you'd like them to?

[ink]

I completely disagree with that concept

the duel is..... meet at the same alt, no climbing above that alt before icon range, at icon range anything goes...if you fly straight past each other its just a matter of who can yank his stick faster around to get guns first...

IMO...the Maneuvering part begins long before you pass each other...

[Zoney]

^This^

Fly directly towards your apponent at assaigned altitude, head on untill icons, then anything (except head on firing) goes.

I like the idea that the point in time when the Icon appears is clear and definable.  Otherwise, for instance, what shall you call the "merge" ?  When you physically pass him?  When you cant see him in your front view ?

[FLS]

I completely disagree with that concept

the duel is..... meet at the same alt, no climbing above that alt before icon range, at icon range anything goes...if you fly straight past each other its just a matter of who can yank his stick faster around to get guns first...

IMO...the Maneuvering part begins long before you pass each other...

That's fine Ink but not maneuvering until you make a level pass is also fine.  You just want to be clear on which rule you're following before you start.