Level Bombing

[Noir]

perk the 1K bombs, reduce the max speed at which the bomb sight can be calibrated. And maybe tune the 50cal dispersion on turrets.

[Tilt]

The sighting system is tooo easy IMO and to compound this the accuracy upon release is tooo high perticularly as altitude is increased. Dropping individual salvos on hangers from 20-30+ k altitude with any certainty of accuracy should be unthinkable IMO yet in AH it is met with a high certainty of success.

The targetting system for level bombers should require some form of carpet/box targetting yet it actually promotes single salvo delivery.

The most accurate method of delivering single bombs should be via attack ac............

I would support a game play balance that perked ordinance via loadout. This may be targetted at 1000lbs and above but it does not have to represent a perk # for every 1000lb bomb.

Just the loadout type e.g if you load 1000lb'ers you deposit the perk regardless of how many loaded.  I would place it quite high but make it retreivable upon a successfull landing.

Ideally (but not essentially) I would add an attack perk category and deduct ordinance perks (lost) for fighter/attack aircraft from that.

[Karnak]

perk the 1K bombs, reduce the max speed at which the bomb sight can be calibrated. And maybe tune the 50cal dispersion on turrets.

So, not only do you want to make the level bombers less accurate, but even more of sitting duck, free kills than they are now?

Why not just remove them from the MA?  It wouldn't even take coding on the part of HTC to do that.

Ideally (but not essentially) I would add an attack perk category and deduct ordinance perks (lost) for fighter/attack aircraft from that.

That would damage the whole point of perking the bombs.  If they don't cost you any of your real perks (fighter) then who cares?

[SmokinLoon]

I don't think the bombing is too easy given the state of game play.  I think it would be nice if there was a minimum bomb level though, make the bombs need to be dropped from a minimum of 5000 feet agl or something.  The lankstuka and low level carpet suicide bombing are just dumb.

That is a tough call.  I have flight logs showing less than 2000 ft bombing altitudes from a B24D using 100lb bombs against Japanese shipping (transports).  I agree though, the ability of the Lancs to carpet bomb a spawn point is a bit off.  HTC could stop some of that by allowing bombs to only be dropped from the F6 mode (bombardier) position.  That would force bombers to fly level (or at least pull up).  The minimum altitude is a tough go especially when actual flight logs show that it has been done.  BTW... on one return flight my grandfather's group flew at 500ft to avoid ack ack on a nearby island.  Evidently, that specific target (logs just say "Jap depot") was not defended but a nearby position was and they flew below the tree line and far enough away to get under the guns.  

[Noir]

So, not only do you want to make the level bombers less accurate, but even more of sitting duck, free kills than they are now?

Why not just remove them from the MA?  It wouldn't even take coding on the part of HTC to do that.
That would damage the whole point of perking the bombs.  If they don't cost you any of your real perks (fighter) then who cares?

I didn't say anything about the accuracy, my concern is that the bombers are the best tool to kill fighters with the laser turrets and magic toughness. Reducing the max speed at which the bomb sight can be calibrated would give a more realistic drop speed, while not changing the time to target much. Also skilled bombers could learn how to manually compensate the difference between ground speed and calibrated speed and drop at max speed.

1K bomb perk would be directed against American fighter bombers, which can drop a hangar in one pass with too much ease IMO.

[Lusche]

my concern is that the bombers are the best tool to kill fighters with the laser turrets and magic toughness.

No need to be concerned, so far the best tool to kill fighters is still another fighter. Heavy bombers are dieing 3-1 to fighters... even though the majority insists on attacking the bombers from low 6 

[Karnak]

If you reduce the max speed that the bombsight can be calibrated at the Mosquito Mk XVI, Ar234B and B-29A become very hard to use as their primary defense is speed.  You take that away, and given the 2+ sectors needed to stabilize their speed a lower calibration speed does take that defense away.

Lusche already pointed out how far off from reality you are on the "my concern is that the bombers are the best tool to kill fighters" claim.  Only the massively perked B-29A ever obtains a 1 to 1 K/D ratio.  The best defended and toughest free bomber, the B-17G, only managed to do about 0.34 kills per death.

[Noir]

No need to be concerned, so far the best tool to kill fighters is still another fighter. Heavy bombers are dieing 3-1 to fighters... even though the majority insists on attacking the bombers from low 6 

This statistic is easy to diss when you see noobs that keep upping bombers from a capped field, to the grand pleasure of jet dweebs. A regular pilot will loose a bomber formation every 20-30mins, some noobs it's every minute without firing a single shot.

A decent bomber pilot will smoke your engine (or worst) 800 out whatever your angle of attack is. Fact is that a bomber formation entering radar at 15K max speed is nearly unstoppable (actually it goes faster than a lot of mid war planes)

The situation in aces high is like in the early 20's, when fighters were regarded as obsolete due to the cheer speed of bombers.

[Karnak]

If you don't attack a bomber like a moron you will get him forty nine times out of fifty, even if it is 999000.

The situation in aces high is like in the early 20's, when fighters were regarded as obsolete due to the cheer speed of bombers.

The only bombers that might be able to make that claim are all perked.  Every other bomber, even the Ki-67, is readily intercepted by the fighters in AH.

[Lusche]

This statistic is easy to diss when you see noobs that keep upping bombers from a capped field, to the grand pleasure of jet dweebs. A regular pilot will loose a bomber formation every 20-30mins, some noobs it's every minute without firing a single shot.

A decent bomber pilot will smoke your engine (or worst) 800 out whatever your angle of attack is. Fact is that a bomber formation entering radar at 15K max speed is nearly unstoppable (actually it goes faster than a lot of mid war planes)

The situation in aces high is like in the early 20's, when fighters were regarded as obsolete due to the cheer speed of bombers.

It goes both ways: Noobs that keep upping in buffs from capped fields as well as noobs attacking bombers from plain 6.
If a decent bomber pilot will smoke you 800 out whatever your angel of attack is, I got good news again: We only have very few of that kind. Guys like triple 9 are incredibly rare. The utter majority of buffs I encounter at alt are simply dead meat if they don't get attacked from their plain six - which IS the prevailing mode of attack.

And yes, a bomber formation at 15k entering dar is nearly unstoppable... if you are still on the ground.
I see no problem with that, because it's easy to read darbars, fly patrols and so on. It's easy to stop them. You can even kill that bomber before he comes around for the next hangars, if you take off when he enters the dar for the first time. A BF 109K takes only 4 minutes to get to 15k.

With the notable exception of the B-29, bombers are meat on the table.

[Noir]

If you reduce the max speed that the bombsight can be calibrated at the Mosquito Mk XVI, Ar234B and B-29A become very hard to use as their primary defense is speed.  You take that away, and given the 2+ sectors needed to stabilize their speed a lower calibration speed does take that defense away.

correct me if I'm wrong, but all of these airframes drop at speeds much higher than in real life, while our fighters intercept as fast as they could back then

Lusche already pointed out how far off from reality you are on the "my concern is that the bombers are the best tool to kill fighters" claim.  Only the massively perked B-29A ever obtains a 1 to 1 K/D ratio.  The best defended and toughest free bomber, the B-17G, only managed to do about 0.34 kills per death.

I don't believe in K/D for bombers due to their massive incorrect use by newbies

There is two ways to kill bombers in aces high, catch them at take off, or climb to 30K with a massively gunned airplane and you're far from being sure to kill them bombers with their 3 lives and ultra stable guns.


One thing that also puzzles me is the difference in toughness between fighters and bombers. Aircraft aluminium is the same whatever the plane is? A good example is the titanium A20.

[Wmaker]

Yeh...

I've been meaning to wish similar update to the bomb sights that was done to the tank sights. I also agree with limiting the bigger bombs on fighter bombers. I would also like to see the effectiveness of aircraft guns against stationary ground targets reduced.

Those changes could be balanced with target hardness adjustments for bombs in general and the percent of the town that is needed to be down for capture.

I think the end result could be overall more realistic as far as operating the bombers and tactics go and playability wouldn't be compromised either.





...I also know that any big change like this would cause massive protests...

[Lusche]

There is two ways to kill bombers in aces high, catch them at take off, or climb to 30K with a massively gunned airplane and you're far from being sure to kill them bombers with their 3 lives and ultra stable guns.

You definitely play a totally different game than us. Surely it's not AH.

[Noir]

You definitely play a totally different game than us. Surely it's not AH.

well to be frank I don't even bother to climb to bombers anymore, it's just a waste of time (ineffective defence, too risky for little gain) and I prefer to proceed to the enemy base directly.

[Karnak]

Bombers are tougher because they are made up of much more material, a 20mm explosion's chunk taken out of them is, percentagewise, far smaller than it is out of a fighter and the much larger volumes inside make the blast damage from explosive rounds much less effective.  Conversely, they are much easier to hit.

Why do you think a B-17G should be as fragile as a P-51D?