Author Topic: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.  (Read 3522 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2012, 12:41:42 PM »
Several posts above refer to and debate crippling. I would agree that any thing that denies players access to game play is not an objective. However something that radically alters the ability of a countries ability to "win" ( due to a strategic mis balance) whilst still permitting all players access to the fight is IMO very desirable.

This then should target capture as the variable mechanism. We can see several variables that do not effect ride access. Looking at the town we see that capture can be made easier or harder as town objects rebuild slower or faster or indeed if the % destroyed ( prior white flag) becomes greater or lesser. Strat could link to these variables without prejudicing game access.


I am sure that there are more........



In the change I suggested last year I focused on towns and captures for that reason.  The commonly requested Mustang and Spitfire factories would deny access to two key fighter or fighter lines to, most often, the outnumbered side which most needs those potent fighters.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2012, 12:59:19 PM »
No matter what else we do get,,( hopefully)
I really would like to see GV spawns into the strats for resupply and or battle .
If a base on one side of a strat gets captured  the enemy could spawn in and destroy it while freindly GV'S  could still spawn in and resupply it or defend it!
If it was like a small headquarters were it would effect an area of radar for a short time would also be cool
Flying since tour 71.

Offline Karnak

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2012, 01:23:23 PM »
Strats should not be resupplyable.  Period.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2012, 02:35:24 PM »
Strats should not be resupplyable.  Period.
Why?
 they are now and have always been!!

 there used to be GV spawns into them as well,, at least some of them,, the problem was that only one base had a spawn,, so if the enemy got into it you could only supply it by goon,, now there are hardly any spawns into the  city/ strat  If it is destroyable,, it should be repairable,,, hangers is the only exception to this rule as it is!
Flying since tour 71.

Offline bustr

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2012, 10:40:39 PM »
You guys were doing good deconstructing and analysing your monoliths for holes untill the resupply the strats personal wish part created a whizzing match.

Remember the current model protects all of the player's fun factor so they are free to do what ever, where ever, when ever. The counter to the unlimited action is each mini strategic object flashes a warning, anyone interested responds which generates imediate conflict over the object or just between players.

At any time a group of players can form a coalition to achieve goals up to capturing the prerequisite numbers of mini strategic objects from the opposing two countries to achive the maximum reward of winning the war. All of the capturable objects are the real strats because owning 20% of them from the two other countries is the Currency to win the war. If the "Strats" or the HQ really mattered other than as a bomber destination, they would be required Currency to winning the war.

For the new player obviously it's challenging and highly immersive for 1-3 years if they stay that long. Or untill the learning curve is run and they graduate to veteren player status. I suspect this audience has reached or exceded veteren status and so the source of the collective "bordom".

The game as is works very well allowing 3 countries to combat each other while protecting the player base from being denyed an equal ability to wage war at all times. HTC will probably never host and help direct these idea fests to change the game. You would be tinkering with their livelyhood while not being personaly exposed to any risk. That is absolutly unfair to HTC.

If you have to carry on this excercise year after year keep some basics in mind. They have become a bit obvious over the years.

1.) You cannot create a system by which a minority can deny the majority the equal ability to wage war at all times. That works well as the primary strategy for a 2 country death match style war game. With 3 countries you will create side imbalancing as players jump to other countries that still have the ability to wage war and then eventualy drive away customers. You cannot force players to stay in the inferior country and be abused, or goof and create a potential Catch-22 MAD condition.

2.) Keep it simple. Complex ideas are mental candy but, no one really wants to fly ww2 fighters to play chess.

3.) How will neophyts honestly respond to it? They are the future of the game. Are you adding to their drudgery of learning the game while feeding your imagination candy? Who are you really designing your game change for? 50 bored hardcore vets or an equal community of 500 paying players?

4.) How can it be gamed and abused. Spend alot of time working on debugging your masterpeice. Or the players will for you, then use it against you.

5.) What is the late night small numbers crowd going to do with your monster? Will you login to an unplayabel map primetime the next day? Wil they get bored becasue it's too much of a construct for so few?

6.) Is it really a good fit for this game? Your 50 bored cohorts will agree to anything that looks good in the off chance any kind of change will happen. Design by Committe often devolves into personality contests, compromises and lost focus over miniscule details down dead ends becasue everyone is a Chief.

I still think it's a better idea to let HTC do this becasue it will cost them if they are wrong. We'll just go find another game to fight over and reminisce about Aces High in the new game's forum like we do Air Warrior here.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Tilt

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2012, 02:57:55 AM »
"exceeding veteran status"    What a concept.............


(firmly in ol'fart status...........)
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2012, 08:18:24 AM »
An HQ run is done these days for no other purpose than to deny the enemy radar acroos his whole map and the thrill of doing so , it's not worth nearly enough points and yet players still do it!
So your idea/ theory that you can't deny the other side is bogus!

It can also be repaired by goon as it is, but on some maps it can also be repaired by m-3


I still think the large city, sitting all empty , so far from the fights is a waste of memory, if all we could ever do was fly over it at 30k, why not just paint the ground to look like a city?
Flying since tour 71.

Offline Hap

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2012, 10:47:40 AM »
An HQ run is done these days for no other purpose than to deny the enemy radar across his whole map and the thrill of doing so.  It's not worth nearly enough points, and yet players still do it!
So your idea/ theory that you can't deny the other side is bogus!
  Naww . . . so easy to fix that the "denial" is minimal while having egg on a country's face and getting the lights turned out of them is really the deal.


Quote
I still think the large city, sitting all empty, so far from the fights is a waste of memory.  If all we could ever do was fly over it at 30k, why not just paint the ground to look like a city?

That's about all we have now.  The easiest "fix" would be for HTC to boost the points awarded to strat destruction big time.  Other players remain unaffected unless <gasp> the city and a factory and field actually do get porked enough and an affect is felt which I doubt would happen.

So, if strat runs earn mega buff points, then we'll all know what's up when we see our strats flash.  And if the bar is significant, we'd see it approaching from sectors out.  The, "hey, look!  Buff ib to reap mega points at our strats' expense, let's wack 'em" might be the likely result.  One that should garner smiles from all of us guys in this thread.

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2012, 10:55:24 AM »
  The easiest "fix" would be for HTC to boost the points awarded to strat destruction big time.  Other players remain unaffected unless <gasp> the city and a factory and field actually do get porked enough and an affect is felt which I doubt would happen.

So, if strat runs earn mega buff points, then we'll all know what's up when we see our strats flash.  And if the bar is significant, we'd see it approaching from sectors out.  The, "hey, look!  Buff ib to reap mega points at our strats' expense, let's wack 'em" might be the likely result.  One that should garner smiles from all of us guys in this thread.
. +1.   Value targets should have a HIGH value!! Right now the highest value target in the game is at the corner of  bombhere and dropem lane  in every town on the map
Flying since tour 71.

Offline bustr

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2012, 03:36:29 PM »
I whole heartedly agree there needs to be some change.

I don't think we are qualified to architect that change. As is this game developed by HTC is a steady state design that works very well to insure 3 countries have the ability to wage unlimited war at all times. Very simple and very effective. Stop trying to fix what ain't broken.

Over the years none of us has admitted we could have desinged the concept ourselves. We have always come from a two protagonist ultimate winner and looser perspective to solve our design wishes. The third protagonist concept is blind to us. We have evolved with a mental architecture of Us vs Them.

In a 3 sided conflict very often you are winning and loosing at the same time. This balances across the 2 other countries with a steady shift state of objects being captured, dead end death matches, and individual actions. This balance is the heart of the game and what your designs seek to tip to the favor of the efforts by a minority rather than to the ebb and flow of the 3 sided process or a concerted effort by a majority.

Your designs have generaly attempted to circumvent the need to organise a majority to win a map in favor of allowing a minority using clever strategies to achive the same goal.

I'm beating this horse to death becasue you keep throwing 2 protaginist cubist formulas at a 3 protaganist sphere problem.

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Torquila

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2012, 05:11:55 PM »
Why not add a "sim city" side to the game?

The highest ranking bomber pilot from each side, can build cities/etc and defences with limited sets of resources/proximity to resources which limit where and what you can build?

Something easy, fun and simple to do, yet not too time consuming! Something as basic as civilization style or whatnot?

Then the other side can work to destroy it!


Offline bustr

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2012, 05:39:44 PM »
Ask yourselves some questions in the terms of how the three sided process works. Three sides with an equal number of capturable objects that are self contained and limited in how other objects near by or globaly can influence them. While relative to the concept of the near constant equal ability to wage war at all times excepting the designers imposed restrictions or requirments to win the map.

For this exercise sector = map square.

What can you change equaly across the arena that does not violate the 3 side constant of the equal ability to wage war at all times factor?

1. You can increase the density and types of objects per sector.
2. You can increase or decrease the size of objects in each sector.
3. You can change the requirements for destroying the objects in each sector.
4. You can change the regeneration time for destroyed objects in each sector.
5. You can change the density and lethality of automated defenses in each sector.
6. You can change the capture requirments for capturable objects in each sector.
7. You can change how player controled objects are exposed through the radar interface.

All of this allows for each sides player population to act as independant generals of their own actions or collaborate for the short time logged in. There are no unfinished or rouge constructs left behind. While each player logs back in later with the expectation of a clean slate and action anywhere they choose to involve themselves.

Why do you want HTC to change this?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Torquila

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2012, 05:55:20 PM »
lulz, maybe skuzzy, pryo and ht could teak das helms instead; that would be total win!

Ht would be like: "Ok heres the new system, get stuk in"
Skuzzy ez liek: "Zomg, noez; moar work?"
Pyro wud beh: "LOLWUT< I NO HEAR YOU"
Den Ht euz: "nubs..."

Epic situation for teh winz, lulz 


Offline bustr

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2012, 07:26:27 PM »
I suspect torquila now sounding like lulu is more representative of the actual sentiment by not having any answers to the construct question in it's basic boring format.

You guys asking for change don't want changes to the existing changable parameters it apperes. You want a complete new underlying structure and process flow outcomes. You want a next gen evolution that can support species of your professed wants and desires while maintaining all of the protections to waging war equaly at all times across 3 countries.

If a two country death match strategy war was your goal the AvA would be populated every night in preference over the LWMA. As is your best ideas don't quit protect the prime requirment of maintaining unlimited war ability at all times to equaly serve all paying players at any time they login.

You keep designing to serve your own wants over if it is good for the whole game. Let HTC do this. The whole game is their meal ticket and primary concern.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline USRanger

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Re: My "Great Compromise" idea to fix the strat game. Opinions wanted.
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2012, 07:57:58 PM »
*sigh* Just let this one die fellas.  It appears a "what if" topic can't be held with certain people getting bent out of shape & taking this conversation waayyyy too seriously.  Let's just move on. :salute




So, how about them Stukas, eh? :banana:
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