Oscar

[ink]

Blasphemy Mitsu San! 

that's my thought....damn the KI will kill both those he mentioned....... quite easily I must say.....


give us the 4 20's in MY ki84....(yes its mine:-)


and NOTHING will be safe.....Ki84 with the punching power of A Hurri2C......

[Vinkman]

The plane will only be as competitive as its pilot is, and will only be as outclassed as its pilot is (and there are a lot of folks in this game that have no class...so I can see that as a problem)

So do we just want to say that if it isn't as fast as a pony with the firepower of the Me262, then it's going to be a hanger queen? So if we already have these two planes we shouldn't add anymore?

If it has a prop, engine, wing, a gun, and flew combat in WW2 then it should be added.

And if your convinced that YOU will never have the skill to fly it, then that's fine...there is always a 500mph eny 5 warrior pick fest you can join to make you feel good.

The rest of us are just looking for our fun as well.

+1 for the Ki-43's

I've spent 6 months in s P-39 in LW. I know a little something about flying uncompetitive planes and why others fly them too. New planes don't have to be better, they have to add something new and different.   Does the Ki-43 do that, is all I'm asking?

[Mitsu]

Ki-43-III with 30 ENY Ki-43-II with 35 ENY?

[dhyran]

I remember the old WB days when fighting with a KI 43 noe. An amazing bird which can put on some flames ...... right flown!

cheers
dhy

[HighTone]

I've spent 6 months in s P-39 in LW. I know a little something about flying uncompetitive planes and why others fly them too. New planes don't have to be better, they have to add something new and different.   Does the Ki-43 do that, is all I'm asking?

I don't think we are that far apart on the issue Vink.

Wouldn't the addition of the Ki43 in itself be "new" and "different"

New as in we didn't have it before....check

Different as in we don't have one now....check


So I have to ask ya, what other planes would anyone want that doesn't fit the new and different criteria?

And if it has to surpass other planes performance in a number of categories to be warrented and not prelabeled as a hanger queen, well then aren't we just back to the it has to be bigger, faster, stronger to be included line of thought?

[nrshida]

The plane will only be as competitive as its pilot is, and will only be as outclassed as its pilot is (and there are a lot of folks in this game that have no class...so I can see that as a problem)

Respectfully I think this point is flawed. A skilful pilot can only perform up to the limits of the aircraft and the ACM that it is capable of. Although I agree that limit is seldom demonstrated in the MA.

[Vinkman]

I don't think we are that far apart on the issue Vink.

Wouldn't the addition of the Ki43 in itself be "new" and "different"

New as in we didn't have it before....check

Different as in we don't have one now....check


So I have to ask ya, what other planes would anyone want that doesn't fit the new and different criteria?

And if it has to surpass other planes performance in a number of categories to be warrented and not prelabeled as a hanger queen, well then aren't we just back to the it has to be bigger, faster, stronger to be included line of thought?

I enjoy the discussion but I feel bad about turning this thread into a discussion against this plane.  In retrospect I wish I hadn't done that because, while I think I'm correct about useage,  it doesn't add value to argue against anyone's desire for a particular piece of equipment in the game. 

To your question...Different is defined in each attribute quality of a plane. A strategy for any plane can be developed based on it's attributes, playing to it's strengths and trying to avoid it weakenesses. But if the profile of attributes is very similar to another plane, just scaled down slightly, it doesn't create new matchups. The Oscar will have a very similar attribute profile to the Zeke. The guns will be turned down a lot, the speed will be turned down a little, and the turning ability will be turned up a little. But the Zeke is already the best turning plane in the game. So a better tunring Zeke doesn't get you much. Turning the guns way down and making it slower is giving up a ton in the MA.

So the modus operendi for a Zeke is to turn hard to engage and get the kill before he can run away from you. Anyone who stays and turn fights you is going to get killed. Won't the Oscar be exactly the same except when you bring guns to bare, you have significantly less chance of gettng a kill, and even less chance of keeping up with the bandit? Zeke pilots who have excepted the plane's trade offs, will not find a reason to chose this plane because it's "gets" aren't as big as it's "gives" they will fly the plane but be less successful. they will be saddled up longer and get picked more often.

If Zekes were easy-mode for getting kills, I could see Zeke pilots taking Oscars in order to add more of a challenge in the way Spit pilots will take a Spit mark I. But a Zeke is already has it's work cut out for it in the LW-MA. Flying one is already enough of a challenge. Spit mkI is a very rare sight indeed because while it's 'different' it's not different in a usable, exploitable, or good way. 

[Karnak]

It is not slower than the A6M and the A6M, other than the 2, is not the best turning fighter in AH.

The Ki-43-III would do about 365mph at best altitude, 10-15mph faster than the A6M5b, while still out turning the Hurricane Mk I and Brewster B239.

The addition of the fowler flaps is another difference between the Ki-43 and A6M.  The Ki-43's power to weight ratio should also be better.

[nrshida]

Fowler flaps are the dog's bollocks by the way. 'When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you’re going to see some serious sh*t'. 

[Wmaker]

Ki-43 variants compared to some other lighter wingloading fighters found from AH:


Poor prop efficiency hampers the I-16 and would probably hamper Ki-43-I aswell due to its two bladed two-speed prop. For Ki-43-I 2-speed prop model would have to be coded as well.

[nrshida]

Additionally the wing area will increase when the Fowlers are deployed in the Ki-43 and not with anything else on that list. Are the flap deployment speeds known?

[Debrody]

According to Maker's post...
The -III model would outperform the -II in every possible situation.
How many of them were built? Would this model fit the criteria?

[Karnak]

According to Maker's post...
The -III model would outperform the -II in every possible situation.
How many of them were built? Would this model fit the criteria?

I believe somewhere between 1000 and 2000 Ki-43-IIIs were built, but I have never seen a breakdown of production for it.

[Debrody]

Great.
I dont see any point in adding the -II model tho. The -I could be an eny40 scenario ride, and the -III as a semi-competitive late war model, maybe eny30?
They arent half as bad as i thought.
+1

[Tank-Ace]

The plane will only be as competitive as its pilot is, and will only be as outclassed as its pilot is (and there are a lot of folks in this game that have no class...so I can see that as a problem)

So do we just want to say that if it isn't as fast as a pony with the firepower of the Me262, then it's going to be a hanger queen? So if we already have these two planes we shouldn't add anymore?

If it has a prop, engine, wing, a gun, and flew combat in WW2 then it should be added.

And if your convinced that YOU will never have the skill to fly it, then that's fine...there is always a 500mph eny 5 warrior pick fest you can join to make you feel good.

Really trying to cram in the over-simplifications there, aren't you?

First off, the plane matters. Pilot skill being equal, the plane will determin the fight. Some are better able to fight from a possition of disadvantage, which is an inevitablity. So the plane will be as competative as the plane is, that will never change no matter whos flying it. But how dangerous it is depends on the guy at the stick.

Second, nobody is saying that it will be a hanger queen because its not as fast as a P-51 or as heavily armed as the 262, and nobody is saying everything added has to be better than either of them. You're putting words in our mouth. However, we ARE saying that the Ki-43, after the 'new' wears off, will be a hanger queen because it is weakly armed, not weaker-armed than any other fighter aircraft we have in the game (although it is that), but because it is weakly armed period.

Now thats not to say its armament couldn't be usefull, I've made kills with even a single 7.92mm and some good aim, but that you WILL fell the lack.


Third, nobody in this discussion would be wanting in skill to fly the Ki-43. Tactics would be pretty simple: turn, and shoot. The argument is that we would have more fun in many other rides than we would in the Ki-43.



Nice attempt at misdirection though  .