2012 base taking squads, Good, Bad & Ugly

[RedBull1]

I don't mean for midwar shananigans to be taken as an insult, especially since I've done the same thing and enjoyed it.  

Funny how the game changes with changes in tactics, just like tactics change when the game changes.  The way I see it as far as base closing goes is like this.

When I was new to the game it was all NOE all the time, lots of 110s flying below radar was pretty much the standard and an easy route to success.  

Then the towns and fields got a bit more complex.  Before we had the flag and it took 100% of buildings down to get a capture.  To capture a base you had to first send 20 sets of eyeballs to check and recheck the town before running troops.  Bases  needed to be closed just for all the finish work towns required and even then it would take a 2nd or 3rd set of troops to get a capture because we'd miss a building or four.

After this, briefly the flag was introduced and it barely took any destruction to get the white flag.  It didn't stay this way long enough to change tactics.

After that we came to where we are now.  Personally I got lazy, I kept using effective tactics and got my squad trained up to be pretty efficient.  We took a lot of bases but a lot of our enemies started to realize that if they up from a nearby field they could fight back but only after we captured the field and landed so there was no real fun way to defend against the 'bishop horde'.   This was unfortunate for both us and them because since they stopped defending like they normally would we were always in low heavy Jugs by the time it was time to fight.  I found myself at a crossroads where not only was the enemy not counter-attacking like they normally would, but the base takers never got any air combat practice and pretty much forgot how to fight.  

This is when base taking became nothing more than an exercise in boredom to me and forced me to look for new ways to capture fields that were fun again.  This usually means leaving hangers up at airfields and hoping they fight back.  Granted it's not as efficient or as successful but it is a heck of a lot more fun than working on a base taking assembly line.  It's also allowed me to fly a greater variety of airplanes and learn how to dogfight a bit in planes that are well suited to flying low and relatively slow.

Sometimes I feel it's best to pull midwar shananigans or even close a whole field down to get a foothold but I prefer a variety of tactics and a variety of planesets.

[Rob52240]

I think I left something out too.  A few months ago DOGFITE, our former CO returned from a year of being gone.  We told him to pick up like he never left and we went straight back to closing everything.  I'd told semp and a few other non bishops about getting away from the field closure thing but as soon as the squad got used to not closing fields, they were being told to nuke every field we attacked with heavy jugs.  I got frustrated and took a few weeks off.
Thankfully I think we're all back on track now.

[curry1]

I miss defending NOE base take missions, so much fun. I do not miss flying NOE base take missions, so boring.

It was great fun.  Falcon23 hitting the ground or a tree or exploding himself with a bomb.

[Plawranc]

Personally.

I have rolled with the horde quite a bit.

Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers as a member.

And tagged along with squads like the A8's, Lynchmob, Gunfighters, VTards and Freebirds.

They were, and are, all fantastic groups of guys.

My personal fave was the Aces and 8s. Organized, effective and good natured. And I still miss the late nights with A8WB  . 

[Wildcat1]

It was great fun.  Falcon23 hitting the ground or a tree or exploding himself with a bomb.

I remember that!

 we would really be flirting with the squirrels tree-top level in bomb-laden 110s and nikis, and almost always someone bit it.

we would hear a BANG!!! shortly followed by "damnit!!"

 

[Kalain]

I think a lot of it has to do with player skill(mine being relatively low), and the nature of the basetake.

I played a few years back, back before the days of the flag in town. I don't remember many people upping then either. Now if you don't shut the base down and/or take it quickly a 262 comes in kills your goons/someone strafes the troops, GVs pour outta of the hangers after 15 mins, and people up like crazy. Leaves you really with 2 options, deack and cap the field, or close the base. I personally consider closing the base a little more...I guess humane? And then you got reinforcments upping from nearby field to get alt,defend and goon hunt, GVs coming into town from adjacent spawns. It just becomes a mess at that point, becomes a possibly long drawn out furball.

When a 20 or 15 man mission comes in and an equal number up to defend, you're going to lose people to Ack, Manned Ack, Whirbls, getting ganged on, HOing, Ramming, stupid decisions and whatever else. The Attackers take 10-15 mins to get back and the defenders just reup. Your mission turns into a drawn out slugfest instead of a basetake.

I personally think the basetakes got uglier/dirtier because the defenders got uglier/dirtier.

My 2 cents, in my experiance.

[JUGgler]

Back in 2000 the MAW were one of the best..in fact they probably set the standard for pre-planning and multiple base takes coming straight outta AW it's end day. The Ak's at the time were excellent if I remember correctly and quite a few others I can't remember.

In 2007 to 2009 Aces & 8's and LTAR were probably the most sought after...but not because they were dirty horders. both flew (or Drove) with honor and had smart leaders.

2011 we all know how dirty the tards are and although disliked, not hunted (why I don't know). Excellect planning IMO but dirty as it gets. In order to stop their lemming minions you need to kill troops just to give a clue.


So who else is there thats any good out there anymore in 2012?

What do you mean dirty?

 I know they fly together much, but dirty?




JUGgler

[Shuffler]

What do you mean dirty?

 I know they fly together much, but dirty?




JUGgler

I think he meant from hitting the ground so much.

[The Fugitive]

I think a lot of it has to do with player skill(mine being relatively low), and the nature of the basetake.

I played a few years back, back before the days of the flag in town. I don't remember many people upping then either. Now if you don't shut the base down and/or take it quickly a 262 comes in kills your goons/someone strafes the troops, GVs pour outta of the hangers after 15 mins, and people up like crazy. Leaves you really with 2 options, deack and cap the field, or close the base. I personally consider closing the base a little more...I guess humane? And then you got reinforcments upping from nearby field to get alt,defend and goon hunt, GVs coming into town from adjacent spawns. It just becomes a mess at that point, becomes a possibly long drawn out furball.

When a 20 or 15 man mission comes in and an equal number up to defend, you're going to lose people to Ack, Manned Ack, Whirbls, getting ganged on, HOing, Ramming, stupid decisions and whatever else. The Attackers take 10-15 mins to get back and the defenders just reup. Your mission turns into a drawn out slugfest instead of a basetake.

I personally think the basetakes got uglier/dirtier because the defenders got uglier/dirtier.

My 2 cents, in my experiance.

This is because now a days the WHOLE mission dives in dropping their bombs, some hitting targets, some not, then the entire force hovers over the runways vulching while some poor sucker is "hoping and a praying" he can sneak in with a goon.

Have some guys hold high as cap with bombs. If bad guys come in dump bombs and assist. If bombs are needed to knock something down again, you have them on station. Have those who die to defenders in stead of upping and running back to the field intercept the bad guys coming in from near by bases moving the fight away from the field under attack. Don't fly goons in strait lines from one base to another, same with M3's. Thats the first pass any one looking for a goon is going to take.

The above counts on people NOT worrying about their score (willing to dump ords on no targets) NOT worried about "getting kills" (not everyone can be in the vulch), and learning to fly better, and smarter. (a good goon pilot can last a number of passes if they know how to fly which is even enough to slow a 262 down enough to get shot down by friendlies).

It's all in how you use what you have.

[Delirium]

We took a lot of bases but a lot of our enemies started to realize that if they up from a nearby field they could fight back but only after we captured the field and landed so there was no real fun way to defend against the 'bishop horde'.   This was unfortunate for both us and them because since they stopped defending like they normally would we were always in low heavy Jugs by the time it was time to fight.  I found myself at a crossroads where not only was the enemy not counter-attacking like they normally would, but the base takers never got any air combat practice and pretty much forgot how to fight.

Great post and it is EXACTLY how the rest of us feel about attempting to prevent a base capture.

Would you be in favor of HTC creating a reason to defend a newly taken airbase? For example, ack doesn't come up immediately and the flags stay white much longer after capture. Imho, until something like does occur, gameplay will continue to suffer.

[bustr]

If the goal was to win a map this would make large maps like Trinity a never ending quicksand bog.

Smaller maps it would be more competitve to the defenders thwarting the rolling hoard's momentum. The hoard would have to get better organised with a dedicated rear action team to hold new ground. Rear guards would have more meaning than to watch your 6 after you get off the bus at the wrong stop on Church Street, February in the Castro.

I recently experienced how this can be a benifit to game play. A just taken feild had two enemy GV spawn close to the town. The hoard began running a hoard of M3 and jabbo at the town while the flag was white. Our hangers were up but ord was down. We kept the feild but, not until after sacraficing 20-30 fighters and A20 into the trees chasing troops, M3 and avoiding picking fighters. We were lucky to have GV in the town still alive with all the jabbo.

Not all feilds are related this way to two or three other feilds so the loosers of a feild have an ideal opportunity to race back in with a hoard of GV from close by spawns. Let alone supporting jabbo. If the random spawn circle had been bigger or the GV'ers had a mouse movable spawn arrow over a larger cricle, we probably would have lost the base to an M3 recapture. It was 7 troops close when the first buildings popped.
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It's become apperant over the last 10 years, map building players create the relationship of "bases to bases" in the face of geography on many maps with no understanding of the player communitie's fun seeking motivations. They build the map for themselves the same way they would offer a custom arena for 12 like minded freinds.

There is a reason why the furballers and instant action fun seekers always find the two closest bases and not bomb each others base. Or why GV'ers will keep respawning into a close 3 way tank spawn fight on any map in rotation each night. Time and distance to the action. Geography has always seemed to be on the map for eye candy like the AH1 high mountains deep canyons Fad on Trinity and the scaled down Pizza plop map.

What do most players want before all of the mental problem solving and character building gymnastics that get thrown in by this game's arm chair strategists and strategic bus drivers?

Not to spend the majority of their night getting to and from the fight. The customer is paying for "FUN = Action" not "Driving Miss Daisy" 5-10 minutes to a drive by shooting just to die and waste another 5-10 minutes getting back to the fun to die again. New players might eventualy wonder if all this game is about is spending a long time in transit then die. That learning curve paradox of stick to carrot.

Until the new player has put enough time into the game, all he gets is the stick at the other end of the flight by hand delivering his carrot over that 5-10 minute flight. You cannot blame him much for not learning how to fight in the face of this along with HOing everything he sees after a 5-10 minute transit.

I can see new players prefering a hoard becasue of this unforgiving fact of our game.

Lusche should do a graph on player tollerances to "time delaying fun" cross referenced to travel time on our biggest maps. Actualy you can't without sending out a player satisfaction survey with questions designed to show player tollerence(boredom) to time in transit. I'll bet newer and younger players have a lower tollerance than older players. 
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Note: Testing gunsights offline on a special events historic map, I discovered why you don't want airbases closer than 3\4 of a sector from each other. Your FPS starts dropping by looking in the direction of the other feild offline with 6 drones in the pattern. 

[JUGgler]

Great post and it is EXACTLY how the rest of us feel about attempting to prevent a base capture.

Would you be in favor of HTC creating a reason to defend a newly taken airbase? For example, ack doesn't come up immediately and the flags stay white much longer after capture. Imho, until something like does occur, gameplay will continue to suffer.

YES!!



JUGgler

[kilz]

i remember when you could run into a town after the base was taken and deack it with an M3 and drop troops.

heck i remember one time when rooks and Bish where fighting for a base and i think rooks took it. me and another LTAR where hiding in the buildings with M3s with troops when we saw they all landed we took out the two ack guns that didnt shoot at you and dropped troops and took the base back in 2 minutes LMFAO 200 just blew up

good times

[Delirium]

YES!!

I know how you feel about it, I was curious if vRob felt the same way. 

[icepac]

It might be fun to set the arena up such that the war is won (actually....lost) when a country only has a single uncapturable field left.

People would have another reason to capture or defend fields if losing them removed the ability to launch.

As it is now, there is very little effect of an enemy running amok all over your country and rolling bases other than your country losing the war.

I've seen some epic battles where a country had only two fields left and battled back to take the map.

I often look at the map when a war is won and can't tell the difference between how it looks when fresh and new versus having lost the war.

I would hope losing or winning the war would be obvious from looking at the map but the only way I can tell a huge event just occurred (war being won)............. is when I see the yellow text message in the buffer that I don't have enough time to land before the server kicks me.