Crusader Tank

[Butcher]

After reviewing a few threads, I think one idea for the next ground vehicle would be the Crusader Tank, while its an early war tank - it fought against the Africa Korp. Crusader was one of the Primary British Cruiser tanks during WW2, it certainly fought well and holds its place in Aces High eventually, however given its "unique" modifications as an Anti Aircraft tank, it would be quite interesting to add since it gives the Allies their own Anti Aircraft vehicles rather then in Scenarios/Fso's using the M-16 only vs the Wirb/Osti.

Stats are basic:
26 mph
Mk I, II: QF 2 pdr (40 mm) 110 rounds
Mk III: QF 6 pdr (57 mm) 65 rounds
Armor: Mk I: 40 mm
Armor: Mk III: 51 mm


Crusader Mk III.
Due to delays with the Cruiser Mark VII Cavalier and the need for cruiser tanks, the Crusader was up-gunned with the 6-pounder, the first British tank to mount this gun. Design work for a new turret started in March 1941 but Nuffield was not involved until late in the year when they adapted the existing turret with a new mantlet and hatch. The turret also received an extractor fan to clear fumes from the firing of the gun. The larger gun restricted turret space so the crew was reduced to three, with the commander acting also as gun loader—the loader was already the wireless operator. The auxiliary turret space was given over to ammunition stowage. The Crusader III first saw action, with about 100 participating at the Second Battle of El Alamein in October 1942.[14]

MK I

MK III

Crusader III, AA Mk I
The 6-pounder was replaced with a Bofors 40 mm anti-aircraft gun with an autoloader and powered mounting in an open-topped turret. The crew numbered four: gun commander, gun layer, loader, and driver.


Crusader III, AA Mk II / Mk III
A Crusader armed with twin Oerlikon 20 mm guns for anti-aircraft use. Mk III only differed from the Mk II by the position of the radio, which was moved to the hull in order to free some space inside the turret. A variation with triple Oerlikons that was produced in very limited quantities. Due to Allied air superiority none of the AA versions saw much action.

[Ack-Ack]

Now you've done it....you're gonna get Tank-Ace's panties all bunched in a wad and we're gonna get spammed as to why AH needs the Panzer III over anything else.  Thanks.

BTW, I agree with adding the Crusader

ack-ack

[Zexx]

+1 on the Crusader Light tank; both as a ADA weapon and as a Tank.

[Butcher]

Now you've done it....you're gonna get Tank-Ace's panties all bunched in a wad and we're gonna get spammed as to why AH needs the Panzer III over anything else.  Thanks.

BTW, I agree with adding the Crusader

ack-ack

He can just pay HTC $1,000 to get the Panzer III added first.

[RTHolmes]

even $15 a month would help ...

[lyric1]

This platform makes a lot of sense. 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS466US466&q=crusader+tankMK+III&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ZFvaT8eGOoOs8QSR1ITwAw&biw=1280&bih=681&sei=aFvaT6CtLYPe9AS15-HjAw#um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS466US466&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=crusader+tank+MK+III&oq=crusader+tank+MK+III&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=img.12...1304.1304.0.2621.1.1.0.0.0.0.145.145.0j1.1.0...0.0.bNeyHYJOpJs&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=222a547ab4626d16&biw=1280&bih=681

[lyric1]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/94114705/Bingham-J-1970-Crusader-Cruiser-Mark-VI-AFV-Weapons-Profile-No-8

[Karnak]

What sort of penetration does the 6lber have.  That article says it could compete with the long barreled 75 armed Panzer IV (I am guessing Panzer IV F), but that strikes me as unlikely for a 57mm gun.

[Butcher]

What sort of penetration does the 6lber have.  That article says it could compete with the long barreled 75 armed Panzer IV (I am guessing Panzer IV F), but that strikes me as unlikely for a 57mm gun.

Here's a penetration table for it:
AP for Mk III Gun: 500 meters it penetration 81mm
APDS Sabot: 500meters it penetrates 130mm, 1000 meters 119mm, 1500meters 101mm
Source Western Allied Tanks 1939-45, David Porter, 2009

In Africa it used the AP round, however for sicily and such it used APDS sabot

[RTHolmes]

What sort of penetration does the 6lber have.  That article says it could compete with the long barreled 75 armed Panzer IV (I am guessing Panzer IV F), but that strikes me as unlikely for a 57mm gun.

its surprisingly effective for the size, cant wait to see it installed in the mossie

[Tank-Ace]

+1 for the Mk III, but only after we add some more usefull stuff like a Churchill Mk III or IV and Mk V, and maybe a Cromwell, if we want to go British.



-1 for the Mk I and II, at least untill we get some stuff for it to fight that won't beat it into the ground (*cough*Panzer III*cough*)..

[Butcher]

+1 for the Mk III, but only after we add some more usefull stuff like a Churchill Mk III or IV and Mk V, and maybe a Cromwell, if we want to go British.



-1 for the Mk I and II, at least untill we get some stuff for it to fight that won't beat it into the ground (*cough*Panzer III*cough*)..

I agree, only reason I can see the Crusader viable first, is having Allied AAA units - If HTC added the Crusader and Panzer III it would make perfect sense.

[Tank-Ace]

..... sorta perfect sense. Depending on the models in question, the Panzer III would still beat on the Crusader, but at least the Crusader would have a chance to hit back, what with the 30mm turret armor on the Ausf J.


And the primary reason for Allied AA would be AVA, I'm guessing?


If thats the case, -1. It gets even less use than the EW and MW arenas, where updating the SdKfz 251 and getting a /17 or a /21 would be about as beneficial and would be quicker.

[Butcher]

..... sorta perfect sense. Depending on the models in question, the Panzer III would still beat on the Crusader, but at least the Crusader would have a chance to hit back, what with the 30mm turret armor on the Ausf J.


And the primary reason for Allied AA would be AVA, I'm guessing?


If thats the case, -1. It gets even less use than the EW and MW arenas, where updating the SdKfz 251 and getting a /17 or a /21 would be about as beneficial and would be quicker.

Scenarios, FSO, AVA everywhere - Allies get stuck with the M-16 only, giving it the Crusader means adding a 40mm Bofors version and twin 20mm. Which the Crusader Mk III is more then a match for a Panzer III and Panzer IV-F2 on equal terms. Adding the Panzer III means allies still only have one EW Tank, as well as no AAA tanks.
I am promoting to balance the arena out in terms of equality. Adding the Panzer III doesn't balance nor improve the arenas, Crusader does give time to add AAA varients which could boost some level of play for Fso's which are still one of the main attractions on friday nights.

Given time, if the Crusader does come available, the Panzer III would be around the corner as an opponent, otherwise its the Panzer IV F for EW model. IVF-2 would be more of a midwar model, hence why a Cromwell would take care of that.

Question is are you arguing the Panzer III just because YOU want it, or is there any credible argument you can make why it should be added before everything else? My argument ^ is above, Balance the scenarios since they are what the majority play, besides Late War Arena.

[Volron]

I say +1 to the Crusader line AND the Panzer III line.