60 of my buddies vs the ack (hangars dropped)

[tunnelrat]

I like this game.  I have alot of fun playing it.  I like interacting with foes and friends.  Sometimes when I am playing I don't get what I want.  Sometimes my plans have to change while I am flying.  I never fly in a horde but I do fly in a plane and sometimes there are alot of friendly planes around.  Sometimes there are alot of enemy planes around.  If I do not like what I am doing I change what I am doing, I don't try to make others do what I want so what someone else is doing, is just fine.  I'm nice to my fellow players.

+1 

[lulu]

"i would like to see the dedicated horders...   fight in 10v10!"

This is not the point.

The point is ""i would like to see" only or too.

It seems not so difficult to realize.

Some times ago, for all the time that i played one night, i was outnumbered
by a squadron whos members flew p40 only, about 4 or 5 players.


 

[Wiley]

While I generally agree with you (defense is more unpopular than the attack), there is one inherent difficulty even if there were enough players inclined to defend more: The time factor.

A smash'n'grab mission is easier to organize, because you can set a time in advance and wait until the necessary number of players finally has assembled on the launch base. The defenders have to react, and depending on the type of mission being inbound, the hardly have time to. Most players are in a sortie at the time the alert is triggered, and it takes a lot of time for them to finish their sortie and get to the base under attack.
Only very few players are probably willing to spend their time in the tower, watching the map for any incoming missions while everybody else is 'out there' and having fun.

Agreed on all counts, that's why I mentioned magic.  I realize it's just unfortunately not practical in most cases.   The smash and grabs you just can't mount a reasonable defense against in time.

The thing that just makes me laugh and shake my head though is when you get a situation you can see developing for 2 or 3 sectors, that people call out 20-30 minutes before it gets there, and nobody ups to defend until there are 20 dots within a mile of the base and somebody calls 'Alert 103!!!'  Sorry, I mean '*****************ALERT 103!!!!11!!!1!' on country and then gets irate when nobody beams in at altitude to defend.

I realize people are up to stuff a lot of the time, but with a situation like that you've got say, 10 minutes to get shot down/RTB, still gives you 10-20 minutes to get up to alt.  If you're flying something that can climb that's plenty of time to get up for many of the attacks I see come in.  Few people come in above 15k.

I quite often see these things develop, see someone call them out on country, and have time to get above all of them in a P-47D-11 before they get on dar.  I say again, in a P-47D-11, usually without WEP!!!   If I can do it, anybody that likes flying Luftwaffe iron could be there in half the time.

But, it's not a popular mode of play.  I've come to terms with that.  I just wish it was sometimes.  My favorite parts of the game are multi on multi engagements, and they just don't happen as often as I'd like.

Wiley.

[The Fugitive]

You AH sociologists can theorize and debate all you want... you can graciously put lipstick on a pig and politely define "hording" as the AH equivalent of little baby fish schooling up to survive.  The bottom line is this: a successfully coordinated combined arms assault bringing together 20-30 guys and gals from across the planet is an actual accomplishment.  

If you have all 20-30 of them diving on the same FH then its a horde. If you have them porking/setting up 2 other fields while the main force uses bombers and fighters both heavy and light to attack a third field at the same time, then yes it's a coordinated mission.

Most games have objectives, using rules to guide the game so that both/all sides have a chance to best the other players. Unfortunately, this game has a loop hole in it and the use of that hole takes away that chance and so we get hordes running around trying to capture enough bases for the "win" before the other teams. There is no defense against a good horde, other than a half dozen people spending the night porking ords or troops along the front. Even that won't stop it, but it will slow it.

The horde has taken a lot of the fight out of the game. The horde attacks and if they don't grab the base, they disappear to attack NOE some place else. They need to avoid the fight either due to poor skill, or it gets in the way of capturing the base. SO now we have a large population ( because all side do it) of players just running from fights.

These "horders" believe they are skilled. I'd like to see how skilled. Like Lusche said, getting a defense together is tough because players being in the air and occupied so don't have the time to get organized. My proposal, when the "horders" are loading up the mission and as Del said "YOU MUST USE CAPS FOR EVERYTHING ON CHANNEL 2!" in stead type everything out on channel 200. This way the defenders will have time to get organized and maybe mount a defense. Of course, the horders being what they are won't go for this as they go out of their way to avoid a fight. On the other hand, if they are so good they shouldn't have any problem capturing the base any way right? So which is it?    

[tunnelrat]

If you have all 20-30 of them diving on the same FH then its a horde. If you have them porking/setting up 2 other fields while the main force uses bombers and fighters both heavy and light to attack a third field at the same time, then yes it's a coordinated mission.

Agreed, completely.

Most games have objectives, using rules to guide the game so that both/all sides have a chance to best the other players. Unfortunately, this game has a loop hole in it and the use of that hole takes away that chance and so we get hordes running around trying to capture enough bases for the "win" before the other teams. There is no defense against a good horde, other than a half dozen people spending the night porking ords or troops along the front. Even that won't stop it, but it will slow it.

Yeah, doing the ords/dar/troops runs can feel like work after awhile... but I kind of like it... makes the Ki-67 useful anyway =)

The horde has taken a lot of the fight out of the game. The horde attacks and if they don't grab the base, they disappear to attack NOE some place else. They need to avoid the fight either due to poor skill, or it gets in the way of capturing the base. SO now we have a large population ( because all side do it) of players just running from fights.

I think this is true to an extent, but I think the problem is deeper than that... it's one thing for a squad (not a horde) to call a bust and move on.  The "path of least resistance NoE bomb and bail" is what I would agree to the use of the term horde for (for whatever that is worth).  And I also agree that it's pretty lame, though an occasional NoE base take can be a lot of fun.

On the topic of running from fights, the problem is how easy it is to defend a base.  I can see why some squads will abandon an attack and regroup... especially when its a goon-cap only field and you have the magical goon finders out and about.  But, here the problem is game mechanics and rewards.

These "horders" believe they are skilled. I'd like to see how skilled. Like Lusche said, getting a defense together is tough because players being in the air and occupied so don't have the time to get organized. My proposal, when the "horders" are loading up the mission and as Del said "YOU MUST USE CAPS FOR EVERYTHING ON CHANNEL 2!" in stead type everything out on channel 200. This way the defenders will have time to get organized and maybe mount a defense.

When my squad launches an attack, we climb out with our massive darbar for 3-4 sectors, guaranteeing fun for all over the target.  This is why I object to any coordinated effort being blanket labeled "hording".

Of course, the horders being what they are won't go for this as they go out of their way to avoid a fight. On the other hand, if they are so good they shouldn't have any problem capturing the base any way right? So which is it?    

Anyone going out of their way to avoid a fight... that's just... I dunno...  unclean.

[Stampf]

[ink]

Also because that's the entire point of the Main Arena...

Playing this game to exclusively circle-jerk furball with a dozen other people is akin to buying a Pagani Zonda so you can sit in it and listen to the radio.  It's still a great sound system, but there are plenty of other ways to listen to music.  Crying when your neighbors actually DRIVE their Sports Cars, well that's too absurd for an analogy.

Calling any group of more than 4 people with a defined "mission" a horde is the method by which those without friends (or too cool for friends) soothe their butthurt after they are trounced by "pick and run tards" who happen to be flying finger four.  (You'll notice that the people who cry the most about "hording" are the first to crow when they win a lopsided fight... which the "horde" provided them with in the first place)

I had a lot of fun flying in the DA... really not sure why those who hate "hordes" as they call them don't simply stay there...  but I suspect it is because the audience is not quite large enough for their ego stroking and .200 smack talk...

You AH sociologists can theorize and debate all you want... you can graciously put lipstick on a pig and politely define "hording" as the AH equivalent of little baby fish schooling up to survive.  The bottom line is this: a successfully coordinated combined arms assault bringing together 20-30 guys and gals from across the planet is an actual accomplishment.  

wrong...the point to the MA is Virtual COMBAT using WW2 equipment, whether it be land, sea, or AIR.....


attacking 1 con with 10 guys is NOT COMBAT except for the 1 guy


I always find COMBAT in the MA

[Wiley]

wrong...the point to the MA is Virtual COMBAT using WW2 equipment, whether it be land, sea, or AIR.....


attacking 1 con with 10 guys is NOT COMBAT except for the 1 guy


I always find COMBAT in the MA

Close.  The point of the MA is sides-based virtual combat.  10v1 is combat.  1 guy shouldn't dive into a crowd of 10 and expect them to break out one at a time and fight him like he's Chuck Norris in a movie.  The one should've brought friends if he wanted to take on 10.

Wiley.

[ink]

Close.  The point of the MA is sides-based virtual combat.  10v1 is combat.  1 guy shouldn't dive into a crowd of 10 and expect them to break out one at a time and fight him like he's Chuck Norris in a movie.  The one should've brought friends if he wanted to take on 10.

Wiley.

sorry but 10vs1 is NOT combat for the 10

it don't take 10 guys to kill one con.....3 or 4 is sufficient..... the others should stay high and watch for incoming baddies.... at the  least give the 1 con a fighting chance...it is after all a game....

but with the mentality of the majority of the MA pop, they don't want combat the just want a kill or a base...and they don't care how the achieve it.

honestly I don't care ether way, just want to point out that he is wrong in his assessment of the point of the MA.

[Getback]

sorry but 10vs1 is NOT combat for the 10

it don't take 10 guys to kill one con.....3 or 4 is sufficient..... the others should stay high and watch for incoming baddies.... at the  least give the 1 con a fighting chance...it is after all a game....

but with the mentality of the majority of the MA pop, they don't want combat the just want a kill or a base...and they don't care how the achieve it.

honestly I don't care ether way, just want to point out that he is wrong in his assessment of the point of the MA.

I try to remember to ask before engaging a 1 vs 1. Not always though. Remember this, whether you engage a 1 vs. 1 or not you've changed the fight just by your icon.

[ink]

I try to remember to ask before engaging a 1 vs 1. Not always though. Remember this, whether you engage a 1 vs. 1 or not you've changed the fight just by your icon.

yup..... true....


I will tell the nme I am not engaging... not all the time but if I know who the nme is I will not engage and let them fight it out....

hell I wish I could remember who it was but we were fighting 1vs1 an nme came in....I broke off and the guy I was fighting killed my friendly...we resumed fighting....a friendly of his came in and he broke off...I killed him..... we resumed fighting....

this went that way for a bit until the furball over took us......was great and a true show of Honor in a silly game.

[Butcher]

yup..... true....

replace with ink.

[Debrody]

Why tunnelrat has to try to offend me with his every second post?
<tired sigh>  <moving away disappointed>

[Wiley]

sorry but 10vs1 is NOT combat for the 10

Sure it is.  It's just not fair combat.

it don't take 10 guys to kill one con.

To quote a wise man, "I did not know how many of them it was going to take to kick my ass...  I did, however, know how many they were going to use."

....3 or 4 is sufficient..... the others should stay high and watch for incoming baddies.... at the  least give the 1 con a fighting chance...it is after all a game....

Never said it was efficient or smart, but it's a result you have to expect.  If I see 2,3,7, or 20 enemy aircraft, I am not expecting all but one or two of them to ignore me.

Like I've said before, I've occasionally been the 5th guy in on a bandit because the other guys were taking too long playing with their food.  The times I can remember doing it it was usually a Hurri2 turning on the deck.

I just don't understand the mentality where you log into a side based free for all arena, and expect anybody to abide by any rules.  You can put all the restrictions you want on yourself, but you can't expect anybody else to have the same arbitrary restrictions.

The only thing you can count on is the guy won't attack you if his plane physically can't get to you.

Wiley.

[tunnelrat]

I DEFINITELY should have clarified when I threw "Entire Point of The Main Arena" out there...

To simplify it as much as possible, what I meant was that the entire point of the main arena is a lot of people flying with and against each other.

That is all.