60 of my buddies vs the ack (hangars dropped)

[Midway]

Behavior can be altered though, especially in a game like AH where conditions can be controlled.  What if, for example, the initial map state had random but equal field ownership all over the map, instead of starting with a large contiguous area for each country?  Sortof like the random start in Risk.   There would be dozens of fronts, and fights would be theoretically be smaller, shorter distance to get to, etc.  I imagine it would be quite an active map while countries tried to consolidate contiguous zones of control.

  Already made that a wish previously.  Think it would be great.  No response fom HTC yet though.   Just thinking about all the variety and how the countries evolve with strategic base taking gets me all  

HTC could hire someone just focused on map improvements/adjustments, base assignments, etc.  

Please HTC.... Would pay a little extra each month too.  

[tunnelrat]

Why horde?  Because it's fun, it's effective, and it works.  And as Lusche's data show in another thread, new players see pretty significant improvement over their first year in terms of game stats (K/D, K/S, etc).  I have to assume that this includes players flying in hordes as much as anyone else, so even in the horde they manage to demonstrably improve their performance.

The short version: AH rewards and encourages hording, so we see hording.

Also because that's the entire point of the Main Arena...

Playing this game to exclusively circle-jerk furball with a dozen other people is akin to buying a Pagani Zonda so you can sit in it and listen to the radio.  It's still a great sound system, but there are plenty of other ways to listen to music.  Crying when your neighbors actually DRIVE their Sports Cars, well that's too absurd for an analogy.

Calling any group of more than 4 people with a defined "mission" a horde is the method by which those without friends (or too cool for friends) soothe their butthurt after they are trounced by "pick and run tards" who happen to be flying finger four.  (You'll notice that the people who cry the most about "hording" are the first to crow when they win a lopsided fight... which the "horde" provided them with in the first place)

I had a lot of fun flying in the DA... really not sure why those who hate "hordes" as they call them don't simply stay there...  but I suspect it is because the audience is not quite large enough for their ego stroking and .200 smack talk...

You AH sociologists can theorize and debate all you want... you can graciously put lipstick on a pig and politely define "hording" as the AH equivalent of little baby fish schooling up to survive.  The bottom line is this: a successfully coordinated combined arms assault bringing together 20-30 guys and gals from across the planet is an actual accomplishment.  

[Delirium]

Tunnelrat, that was the largest amount of unsubstantiated generalizations I have seen on the forums in a long time.

The bottom line is this: a successfully coordinated combined arms assault bringing together 20-30 guys and gals from across the planet is an actual accomplishment. 

No, that is 'herding cats' and all it takes is a bunch of upper case sentences to keep them in moving. It isn't an accomplishment, it isn't teamwork, its cat herding.
---------------

edit: This is a good place to re-post my 'arm-chair general' rules for Aces High.

1. YOU MUST USE CAPS FOR EVERYTHING ON CHANNEL 2!

2. You must alternate between exclamation marks (!) and one digits (1) at the end of every sentence!!!!111!!!

3. You must forgo the use of the S keyz and use Z keyz instead.

4. You must repeat everything twice.

4. You must repeat everything twice.

5. You must know that any difficulty can be solved by adding another 30 guys to your mission. Continue to use caps to announce your mission on channel 2 until you get the number needed.

6. Excessive use of hypothetical questions directed at nobody. "Ummm rooks, why is 65 ord not porked we have a cv their!!!!1!!!1!" (by Trotter)

7. Request that HitechCreations create a Command structure so you can horde, err practice 'Teamwork' more effectively.  (added 6-16-2011)

[Delirium]

The players themselves cannot police themselves, so the game needs to do this for them. I propose a modified zone ENY idea, allow me to explain.

Upon logging in, Player A notices his side has 40 more guys than the other 2 chess pieces. He can;

1. Continue to fly for that side and look for roughly equal numbered fights and suffer ENY penalties as they are now.

2. Fly in an area that is very thin on friendly aircraft; in this case, the ENY penalty he would normally have is diminished or disappears altogether.

3. If he continues to fly 'with the pack' and fly where lots of friendlies aren't opposing any enemy, he is going to suffer with very high ENY aircraft or not be able to fly at all.


Player B logs on and notices he belongs to a chess piece with 40 less guys than the other team. He can;

1. Fly with his pack, even though they aren't opposed and fly whatever he wants, (depending on overall numbers) he may have a small ENY penalty.

2. Fly aircraft against overwhelming numbers and benefit with a large boost to perk earning/lessened perk plane costs.

3. Fly against equal numbers and enjoy a moderate perk earning/cheap perk plane bonus


The above idea would require ENY penalties to be twice as severe and I would also start resetting perk points every month upon the billing day to actually make perk earning worthwhile.

[tunnelrat]

Tunnelrat, that was the largest amount of unsubstantiated generalizations I have seen on the forums in a long time.

So you go and spill your sewer's worth of your own personal opinions/unsubstantiated generalizations?

Way to go? 

[Delirium]

Thanks... I figured this thread needed opposing generalizations, least I did it with a little bit of humor. 

[Shuffler]

So you go and spill your sewer's worth of your own personal opinions/unsubstantiated generalizations?

Way to go? 

There are those who just don't get it. You are a prime example.

[Dead Man Flying]

Also because that's the entire point of the Main Arena...

I don't think that's true.  The current sandbox structure of the MA encourages and rewards hording, and thus we see lots of hording.  This goes back to the days of Air Warrior, mind you, and not just AH.  To say that hording is the "point" though is a stretch.  One could reasonably argue that winning the map is the "point," and hording facilitates that, but that's a far cry from saying that hording is the point.

[tunnelrat]

I don't think that's true.  The current sandbox structure of the MA encourages and rewards hording, and thus we see lots of hording.  This goes back to the days of Air Warrior, mind you, and not just AH.  To say that hording is the "point" though is a stretch.  One could reasonably argue that winning the map is the "point," and hording facilitates that, but that's a far cry from saying that hording is the point.

No, the POINT is to be able to play a war game with a LOT of other people.  As soon as you get too many other people together, you're called a horde.  If you don't want a "horde", there are literally a dozen other arenas people can go to... or, instead, whine.

When we up a "horde" mission, we coordinate 10-20 people on private VOX and (now and again) various other squads or trusted "pick-ups".

This includes someone taking a goon and most likely an M3.  Depending on the base, we may have a ground roll of AFVs and SPAAGS.  A flight of heavy bombers will lift from base A, along with a high alt escort.  Once the bombers are at altitude, an NOE strike package lifts from base B.

Sometimes we win, sometimes we don't, but we have a great time.  To then hear the tired b/s from people like Derpbrody 24/7 gets tedious.   Of course, this is the same crowd that will bleat non-stop if you fight using the advantages of a P-51 or P-47.

Teamwork =/= Horde.

As far as what the POINT is of the main arena.... well, that's the war.  People can argue this all they want, at the end of the day... you can call it a sandbox all you want... just because you can do whatever you want, that doesn't mean that is the point.

The day they come out with an arena called the "War Arena" or the "Base Capture" arena, that argument will have some merit.

(BTW, the above isn't directed at you (DMF) or anyone else personally... just the silliness of the "I've been playing this game for 10 years and... " crowd that is so condescending with their blanket statements)

[tunnelrat]

There are those who just don't get it. You are a prime example.

If by "just don't get it" you mean not a part of your old boy's BBS club, then I suppose I am guilty as charged.

[Midway]

No, the POINT is to be able to play a war game with a LOT of other people.  As soon as you get too many other people together, you're called a horde.  If you don't want a "horde", there are literally a dozen other arenas people can go to... or, instead, whine.

When we up a "horde" mission, we coordinate 10-20 people on private VOX and (now and again) various other squads or trusted "pick-ups".

This includes someone taking a goon and most likely an M3.  Depending on the base, we may have a ground roll of AFVs and SPAAGS.  A flight of heavy bombers will lift from base A, along with a high alt escort.  Once the bombers are at altitude, an NOE strike package lifts from base B.

Sometimes we win, sometimes we don't, but we have a great time.  To then hear the tired b/s from people like Derpbrody 24/7 gets tedious.   Of course, this is the same crowd that will bleat non-stop if you fight using the advantages of a P-51 or P-47.

Teamwork =/= Horde.

As far as what the POINT is of the main arena.... well, that's the war.  People can argue this all they want, at the end of the day... you can call it a sandbox all you want... just because you can do whatever you want, that doesn't mean that is the point.

The day they come out with an arena called the "War Arena" or the "Base Capture" arena, that argument will have some merit.

Horde to me is 30+ guys to take a base when only 10 or 15 are needed and the rest could have been more productive taking another close by base.   In other words it's when the numbers seem ridiculous for the task and could easily be split into two or three groups to accomplish 2 or 3 times as much.   Having been in hoardes, I found most of the time there is nothing for me to do except fly around waiting to land at the soon to be captured base.  I'm lucky to beat another guy to shoot an ack gun.  

That's my only issue with it, the overkill and seeming waste of a lot of people's potential to accomplish more during that time.

[Oldman731]

Whats the difference between this kind of gameplay and, lets say, Diablo or WoW (havent played either, just curious)? What makes people follow orders in a computer game?

I've often suspected that there really isn't any difference.  Apparently there are a lot of MMPGs, or even online first person shooters, that are simply cooperative efforts against the artificial intelligence.  To the extent that people enjoy that kind of game, they might not care whether they face human opposition, or any opposition at all.  They derive satisfaction simply from having real people to talk to as they perform some sort of task.

- oldman

[Wiley]

They derive satisfaction simply from having real people to talk to as they perform some sort of task.

- oldman

And that is why I think a lot of people do what they do.  'Gaming' in a lot of cases, particularly multiplayer, has devolved into 'perform repetitive task, get a reward.'  Most other games, the ones listed above are good examples, have taught people to find the easiest way to accomplish something, then do it a whole bunch of times.

I mean a BUNCH of times.  It seems to create a person that somehow has become immunized to boredom, content to do the same thing over and over and over again, regardless of how monotonous it may be.  I sort of half-seriously wonder what the psychological effects of that are over time.

That's what I like about this game.  Perk planes excluded, on day one of your two week trial you have access to the same gear someone who's been here for 10 years has.  The difference is knowing what to do with it.

It doesn't matter if you've got 20 hours a day to sit at the PC and play this game, unless you as a player actually improve, you don't get any advantage over someone who doesn't have that kind of time to throw at the game.  It's all in what you learn as a player, not how much time you put in, though time in does help.

Numbers work, and they don't require a lot of effort to do so if the opposition isn't equal.  That IMO is why people get into unopposed hordes.

If there was one thing I wish I could snap my fingers and magically make happen, it would be a call of, 'Hey guys, there's a giant bardar a sector out headed into our field.  Let's go stop them.' would produce something other than 4 or 5 guys grumbling about nobody being at the field to help them when the 20 enemy planes get there.

Nobody organizes defense because it takes forces away from the unopposed hording your side is doing 2 sectors over and slows it down.

Wiley.

[Zoney]

I like this game.  I have alot of fun playing it.  I like interacting with foes and friends.  Sometimes when I am playing I don't get what I want.  Sometimes my plans have to change while I am flying.  I never fly in a horde but I do fly in a plane and sometimes there are alot of friendly planes around.  Sometimes there are alot of enemy planes around.  If I do not like what I am doing I change what I am doing, I don't try to make others do what I want so what someone else is doing, is just fine.  I'm nice to my fellow players.

[Lusche]

If there was one thing I wish I could snap my fingers and magically make happen, it would be a call of, 'Hey guys, there's a giant bardar a sector out headed into our field.  Let's go stop them.' would produce something other than 4 or 5 guys grumbling about nobody being at the field to help them when the 20 enemy planes get there.

Nobody organizes defense because it takes forces away from the unopposed hording your side is doing 2 sectors over and slows it down.

While I generally agree with you (defense is more unpopular than the attack), there is one inherent difficulty even if there were enough players inclined to defend more: The time factor.

A smash'n'grab mission is easier to organize, because you can set a time in advance and wait until the necessary number of players finally has assembled on the launch base. The defenders have to react, and depending on the type of mission being inbound, the hardly have time to. Most players are in a sortie at the time the alert is triggered, and it takes a lot of time for them to finish their sortie and get to the base under attack.
Only very few players are probably willing to spend their time in the tower, watching the map for any incoming missions while everybody else is 'out there' and having fun.