Author Topic: RAF Bomber command memorial.  (Read 2049 times)

Offline nate617

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2012, 11:27:20 AM »
You know you have joined the right community when a topic like this is discussed from alternate view points without becoming a slagging match.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2012, 01:27:13 PM »
I breifly read somewhere that the first air raid on civilians was in WW1 by the Germans, and that the effects of this raid on the local populace were taken into account for the later divising of the strategy in the Spinish civil war (Gurnica) and WW2 (Drensden, London Blitz etc.). But I think everyone can agree that the bombing of civilians is wrong and never broke a country's morale as the strategy intended.
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Offline Debrody

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2012, 01:59:16 PM »
If one side is evil (you know which one im talking about), if the other one is doing the same in a bigger scale, that justifyes it all?
Nope. There were horrible deeds on both sides. That German mother in Dresden was just as innocent as the one in London or Coventry. The sin just remains a sin. This should never happen again.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2012, 04:17:38 PM »
I'm afraid this does not address the issue that the Nazis had to go. This was not a war about slightly differing ideologies or squabbling over resources. The Nazis endeavoured to exterminate and subjugate according to their own criteria with no foundation or balance and what Jonathan Meades has described as the 'tragically obedient' Germans of that time had to suffer the consequences for facilitating that endeavour.

In the R.A.F. Museum of Duxford is a vert stab off a Halifax I think, painted on it by the crew are the words 'You reap what you sow'. In the inter-war years the spirit was anti-war and progressive. Hitler and his bullyboys saw this as a job opportunity to further their sick ideals. With this as a backdrop there is no moral recourse to criticise the allied bombing campaign.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2012, 05:30:17 PM »
But I think everyone can agree that the bombing of civilians is wrong and never broke a country's morale as the strategy intended.

That's not quite true.  After the Germans blitzed Rotterdam (which caused 30,000+ civilian casualties), the threatened to do the same to Utrecht and other cities like The Hague and Amsterdam convinced the Dutch government to surrender.

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Offline zack1234

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2012, 06:19:31 PM »
If the war in Europe had not ended when it did Berlin would have been nuked first instead of Hiroshima :old:

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Offline Rich52

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2012, 06:56:42 PM »
If one side is evil (you know which one im talking about), if the other one is doing the same in a bigger scale, that justifyes it all?
Nope. There were horrible deeds on both sides. That German mother in Dresden was just as innocent as the one in London or Coventry. The sin just remains a sin. This should never happen again.
The soldiers were heroes on both sides: they got orders, they did it, sometimes they paid with their lives. Respect and salute to them. But not to those who ordered them to do those deeds. On both sides!

Im not going to argue this but I'll sat that in no other time in history was the balance of right and wrong so clear as in WW2. The perfect storm that put the Nazis in power, and the fact that "most" Germans werent Nazis, and if asked, probably preferred peace doesnt matter. This isnt from a moral perspective but from a practical one. The simple fact is the German Govt. started a war of aggression and then followed an official policy of enslavement and genocide on a scale never before seen in history. Theres nothing to "moralize" here cause the facts are clear and does anybody truly have any illusions about what kind of world we'd be living in had the Axis won?

Most of all Germany. A modern Industrialized state made even more powerful by its slave labor force and resources stolen from occupied countries. There was no recourse but to use the same tactics Germany herself first used, and then pursued, and that was the bombing of cities. Kill the worker and burn the factory and you have less output. Whether it worked or not you cant say it didnt force Germany to pour huge resources to stop the bombers. Resources they'd have preferred to use elsewhere.

Ive never been to Japan but if you go to Germany today its almost impossable to believe this country started such a destructive war. And that "most" of its citizens backed Hitler as long as they were winning. But they did and none of this is an Intellectual exercise ; It really did happen. The Brits and Bomber Command did what they had to do to stop them, its as simple as that.

Theres never been even close to such a destructive war since. Even with nukes all over the world. Maybe humanity finally learned its lesson. Or maybe saving the dream of Democracy and freedom prevented it.  :salute To the crews of Bomber Command.
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Offline DrBone1

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2012, 07:04:24 PM »
I love discussions like this but they get heated way too quick.  :bolt:



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Offline fuzeman

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2012, 08:57:29 PM »
To stop people murdering other people is ethical :old:



I thought we had laws to protect people who murder others? Well, maybe not protect, but deal with them when they do.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline nrshida

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 03:06:38 AM »
We must be careful, as a community, because our hobby skirts around a period which brought out the very best and the very worst of the human race. No civilised thoughtful person wants a war. These quotes from an elderly Gentleman who recently passed away are quite thought provoking and sobering, especially since he is speaking of the First World War:-


'War is the calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings'.

'Two civilised nations, English & German, fighting one another. Why? Why did we do it?'.

'How was it settled? Over an office table. Well why the devil can't they do that, before they involve half a million lives'.


 - Harry Patch. WWI veteran, the last Tommy, speaking at the age of 109 years old.

 
You can watch a documentary about this here if you like:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXoj_9gnMpA



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Offline Klam

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 03:30:25 AM »
I love discussions like this but they get heated way too quick.  :bolt:

I haven't seen any heated posts.  I think this thread and the people who have posted have been very sincere and well behaved.

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Offline DrBone1

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 11:21:07 AM »
Its only post 40 give it some time.


200 Got heated pretty quick last night.


I personally love conversations of this sort because it gives one a wide open view of all opinions.

Something that most in this game cant be bothered with having.  :salute
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Offline nrshida

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2012, 12:19:19 PM »
200 Got heated pretty quick last night.

About this topic Doctor B?


I personally love conversations of this sort because it gives one a wide open view of all opinions.

Something that most in this game cant be bothered with having.  :salute

 :salute
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Offline rogerdee

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2012, 12:47:05 PM »
Finally a memorial.

Its a pity that the guys who survived didn't get to see as they should off.To think what they went through night after night at there young age makes me proud but makes me ashamed of the youth of today.
Most have no pride in there country or them selves or any respect I don't see them being able to do what these young airman did.

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Offline DrBone1

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Re: RAF Bomber command memorial.
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2012, 01:29:24 PM »
About this topic Doctor B?


 :salute

It was first brought up about this topic and then lead on to what you would figure immature adults to take it too.

 :salute DrShida
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