Author Topic: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft  (Read 2289 times)

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »
agreed, they had their POH with speed/climbrate charts, and used guncam films and other pilots' experience to work out where best to hit an enemy aircraft. which is exactly what we have in AH already.
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Offline Slade

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2012, 10:59:45 AM »
+1
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2012, 11:14:52 AM »
Im struggling to see how this would be useful too. I guess it might be useful for the 10 or so guys who can snipe with 30mm or 37mm and want to conserve their few rounds, but if you can snipe with large calibre rounds you have enough experience to know this stuff anyway.

hardly anyone has a hit% over 10%. ie. only 1 out of 10 rounds hit anything at all, let alone what is being aimed at, and these are the best gunners in the game. fighter vs fighter I'd guess that 9999/1000 AH pilots sensibly aim for centre of mass rather than a specific spot on the aircraft.


the only way I can see this being used is for posting I shot him and he didnt blow up complaints on the forums.

 :headscratch:
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 11:37:29 AM »
when looking at charts people also have a tendency to forget about the variables.  they hold the chart as if it was the bible.  there's many times when I have caught x plane while he was climbing and they started crying that I was 3k below then while they were going at full speed when trying to rope.  their complain was always plane x shouldnt out climb x plane .  but they never figure out that I was actually diving from 4 or 5 k above them went 3k below them and had enough e to nail their butts and go back to my original altitude.

this is why I think a chart like this is a waste of time.   you will not know how much damage you are causing to a specific x component when the enemy is turning and diving.  it's only helpful if the other plane is flying straight and even then if you get behind him it normally a safe bet to shot at the wings rather than the body.  well at least that's why i do.

but in to be honest I dont think many people look at the charts to begin with. as we really arent in a combat environment and must account for every ounce of energy and fuel.  what matters most is the honestly know your own skill level and tulips really fast the skill level of the opponent.  that is what will determine the outcome.  and even then it may come back as a surprise to you.  I have gotten killed many a time by some guy that is on his first week of flying and I mean I have gotten pawned bad and yet I have pawned many a fighter that I know has a far superior skill to mine.  :bolt:


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 11:41:25 AM »
agreed.

although you lost me at tulips :headscratch:
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 01:31:34 PM »
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:33:05 PM by guncrasher »
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline bustr

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 05:19:37 PM »
Why I keep telling everyone you have all the tools offline to answer your static condition questions about specific aircraft's destructablility in the drone circuit.

The majority of players in the heat of the moment are lucky to get hit sprites in response to their best effort of each moment. Most of the time you only get the shooting window that's in front of you. Make the most of it, and often many players don't hold the trigger long enough, and the con is very often not cooperating at the same moment. ACM skills forces or sets the con up to cooperate in spite of himself.

As was recently explained about gunnery. Hit messages are transmitted by TCP. You see sprites the con will eventualy get your TCP message to that fact. Otherwise everything else is in play to make your shooting become what you see is what you get to shoot at, make the best of it. Superior ACM skills will enhance your ability to force the con to give you shooting windows more favorable to your gunnery.
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I went to the trouble to test all of this once offline with all of the fighters and some of the bombers while I was having a severe bout of the phenomenon we have erroniously named "Rubber Bullets". I used the twin 50cal from the Dauntless as my tool for dismanteling in controled single taps. Larger caliber cannon rounds were 2x to 5x more destructive in similare testing.

Destruction testing will show you a general trend in fighter destructability. Rear of the wing root in the fuslage going aft causes mostly no damge up to the failure point on some where they then loose their tail section. Shooting wings out board of wing tanks, guns, or landing gear causes mostly no damage until the failure point is reached and that section drops off. In both cases this is alot of concentrated or lucky fire just to break a complete tail unit off. In testing more often I removed both stabiliser and the rudder with nothing else falling apart in that area of the fuslage.

Shooting forward of the wing root into the fuslage will cause any of the following: fuel leaks, fuel fires, oil leaks, kill the engine and kill the pilot. Think P38 inboard of the booms in spades. All other fighters from the guns into the wing root you will destroy guns, fuel leaks, fuel fires and detach the wing at the root from the fuslage.

With fighters from dead 6 level shooting into the trailing ends of the fuslage and wings 70\30 will get you an assist unless you are slightly higher or lower placing rounds forward of the wing trailing edge. Think about when you vulch a plane on the runway from higer back and up. You are shooting forward of the wing trailing edge. What do you get? Fires, dead pilot explosion, or the wings and air fraime falling to peices. Shooting just left or right for a wing root will do more damage from level dead 6. In the heat of the moment a damage and armor list for each fighter won't do much good when most of your shooting is simply what you see is what you get.

Thats why dismanteling offline drones will teach you alot more than Hitech burping out data sheets. Hitech has generously included all of the tools needed for anyone to get up close and personal for understanding the damage model to every aricraft in the game from a shooters perspective. Offline drones and Full Zoom.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 11:19:00 PM »
It doesnt matter. Most users dont shoot well enough to hit any specific portion of an aircraft and are lucky that they can hit 3% of their shots into a Lancaster.
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Offline Pand

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2012, 03:00:15 AM »
I stand corrected, we should NOT know the damage required to take off certain pieces of aircraft, tanks, or structures, nor should we know the damage inflicted by projectiles or bombs. 

This data would not have been widely known in WWII like speed/climb charts, and apparently would have only been generalized over a brew at the pub. 

The Aces High community has spoken!  The following pages should be taken down immediately to appease the comments in this thread.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm

Thanks all for your participation!  :salute

Regards,

Pandemonium
"HORDE not HOARD. Unless someone has a dragon sitting on top of a bunch of La7s somewhere." -80hd

Offline bozon

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 06:00:35 AM »
This is a waste of time.

HTC could pool this time to create a new and modern damage model instead of creating tools to view the outdated one, which is considered one of AH weakest points in comparison to other sims.
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Offline Noir

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 06:12:58 AM »

HTC could pool this time to create a new and modern damage model instead of creating tools to view the outdated one, which is considered one of AH weakest points in comparison to other sims.

that would be the ultimate +1
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 10:48:32 AM »
I stand corrected, we should NOT know the damage required to take off certain pieces of aircraft, tanks, or structures, nor should we know the damage inflicted by projectiles or bombs. 

This data would not have been widely known in WWII like speed/climb charts, and apparently would have only been generalized over a brew at the pub. 

The Aces High community has spoken!  The following pages should be taken down immediately to appease the comments in this thread.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/guns/guns.htm

Thanks all for your participation!  :salute

Well Pand, look at it this way.  Since HTC makes the rules and the decisions, it doesn't much matter what is said either way in this thread.  If they want to do it, they'll do it.  If they don't, they won't.  No need for the histrionics. :)

Also, +1 to better DM pleasepleaseplease.

Wiley.
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Offline Pand

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 11:14:01 PM »
Well Pand, look at it this way.  Since HTC makes the rules and the decisions, it doesn't much matter what is said either way in this thread.  If they want to do it, they'll do it.  If they don't, they won't.  No need for the histrionics. :)

Also, +1 to better DM pleasepleaseplease.

Wiley.
First of all +1 for the DM, with data if they so choose.

Regarding my OP, the way I look at it is, right now we have most of the data, just not the aircraft data.  Take it all away or make it all available.

Regards,

Pandemonium
"HORDE not HOARD. Unless someone has a dragon sitting on top of a bunch of La7s somewhere." -80hd

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2012, 12:27:05 AM »
First of all +1 for the DM, with data if they so choose.

Regarding my OP, the way I look at it is, right now we have most of the data, just not the aircraft data.  Take it all away or make it all available.

ok pand, back to square one.  let's say it takes 50 bullets to take off a wing.  how do you know that when you pull the triggers that 50 bullets actually hit the wing?  it's like asking for the address for the prettiest girl in the city, but you have no way to get there.

releasing that data will create more whining threads about "i hit it with a million bullets and the wing never came off", but what he didnt realized is that he may have hit everything else including the air except the wing and since we have no way of knowing how much damaged is giving to a component.....


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Pand

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Re: Armor / Damage Points for Aircraft
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2012, 01:15:40 AM »
ok pand, back to square one.  let's say it takes 50 bullets to take off a wing.  how do you know that when you pull the triggers that 50 bullets actually hit the wing?  it's like asking for the address for the prettiest girl in the city, but you have no way to get there.
When I fire at vehicles, I know where the weakest part of the gv is, because it is identified in the hangar.  I would like to know the same for aircraft.  
By doing a little math, I can determine the amount of bullets I'm firing and can currently roughly judge how long I have to hold the trigger down to take a wing off a spit16.  Make the shot, walk the bullets to the wing if slightly off, stop firing, wait a half a second and the wing tears off (instead of continuing to fire until visibly seeing the wing fall off due to network lag, etc).   When I've only got 21 seconds of firing all 4x50's in a P-51B, every bullet counts.

I want to believe every aircraft has some sort of hit point # in which it requires a certain amount to be damaged. Some aircraft seem to have an odd setup being they lose parts far quicker then other aircrafts.
See Butchers previous quote--- regardless of how accurate it is to the way it was in WWII, this will provide the information to execute the appropriate amount of critical damage to down an aircraft.  I'm just wanting to understand what it takes and where "HTC" has determined that to be.

releasing that data will create more whining threads about "i hit it with a million bullets and the wing never came off", but what he didnt realized is that he may have hit everything else including the air except the wing and since we have no way of knowing how much damaged is giving to a component.....
See my previous post below, as I have already addressed this.  The example you used above happens consistently, yet the data is not currently available.  Using the excuse to not have this due to whines I believe is not valid.  Review all the posts in the forum already--- the masses will continue their gripes about something else (by now HTC is used to it I'm sure).  I'm not sure how accurate everyone else is, but when I pull the trigger, I'm pretty confident about where my bullets are going to travel.  Reviewing the last few tours, I'm averaging between 13-15%, but is directly relative to how much I'm in the mustang.

Regarding people complaining about X and Y, they're already doing that about everything, adding more data for them to complain about I don't imagine would make that much difference.  If it's not one thing it's another.

Regards,

Pandemonium
"HORDE not HOARD. Unless someone has a dragon sitting on top of a bunch of La7s somewhere." -80hd