Artillery

[Chalenge]

Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.

Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.

If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.

Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. 

[Butcher]

Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.

Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.

If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.

Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. 

How dare you talk to a BBS general like that, he know's far more about tanking then you will ever know. Ah hell nevermind, let him flood the base with jeeps.

[Chalenge]

Butcher: Mud puddle = vehicle. 

[Tank-Ace]

Tank-ace... do the math. Im not going to spell out the entire process for you. Either devote the time to learn how it is done or just admit there are people that can do things you cant figure out.

Next time you are on a vbase and things start to explode but you cant see incoming rounds you will know what is happening.

If I had just four people that could do this then your first hint of a pending base capture would be a flood of Jeeps. Thats why I dont go around telling people how to do it. It would destroy the game. Thats how I see it.

Practically speaking I think the mountains and hills should be reduced to a maximum of 5k or the distance from any mountain that reaches above 5k be moved 20k from any field or town. But what I see as a danger probably doesnt exist of the great mud puddles cant figure it out. 

The numbers still add up to a LOT of wasted shells on your part. If you can quickly get fire anywhere NEAR your target, you're firing from a pre-ranged possition. If say you can quickly adjust fire onto a specific building, you're a damn liar. If you say you don't run into any problems with the recoil, its a mirical you haven't choked on the BS thats poring from your mouth.

The M4 can't do what a Wespe with a variant of a land-gunner mode could. It can't quicky, consitantly, and efficiently deliver heavy fire onto a distant target, without hours of preparation.


So, while your M4 might work as indirect artillery out to 4000yds or so, past that you're running into more troubles than the fire provided is worth, and likely insurmountable problems without untold hours of fire and correct.


And I admit you might be able to do it at 15k; we thought you meant direct fire from 15k, as thats what we were discussing when you brought it up. However, you won't be able to do it 1) quickly 2) consitently 3) efficiently


But I think the first sign of a base capture in progress I would see is your scout circling around town for the hour it would take you to destroy all the town buildings, shortly before some 30mm fire stiches across his fuselage. If you tried to jump the gun, I might also see a horde of jeeps swarming towards the town to try and machine gun the town down and try and rescue a poorly-planned capture attempt.

Why? No v-bases are within 8.52 miles of an airfield, so far as I remember, a scout would quickly be shot down if he were orbiting an useable airfield, and if the airfield weren't useable, the horde would already be overhead.



So yeah, you could theoretically provide indirect fire at extended ranges with an M4, but you'll never be able to do it with anywhere near the usefullness of an actual SPG.

[Tank-Ace]

How dare you talk to a BBS general like that, he know's far more about tanking then you will ever know. Ah hell nevermind, let him flood the base with jeeps.

Lol, you know, I figured it would get old after a while, but it just stays funny. You seem almost bipolar, with your shifts between the false-modesty and humility, and then the chest thumping and poorly executed put downs.


I feel you need some recognition for your contribution to comedy on the BBS though. Perhaps troll-of-the-day award? Or have you gone back to your false-modesty stage already?

[Chalenge]

The numbers still add up to a LOT of wasted shells on your part. If you can quickly get fire anywhere NEAR your target, you're firing from a pre-ranged possition. If say you can quickly adjust fire onto a specific building, you're a damn liar. If you say you don't run into any problems with the recoil, its a mirical you haven't choked on the BS thats poring from your mouth.

No. Its obvious you are not the expert you think you are. Since you havent got the imagination or game know-how to figure this out and also insulted me twice... you can suffer.

[Chalenge]

I went back and double checked the figures and found some errors. First off: an delevation of 9.5k (9500 ft) translates to 3.126k yards. So a horizontal distance of 6k and an elevation of 3.126k from the target translates to a straight line distance of 6.8k. I dont know precisely what distance it takes to make a base flash but I do know that if you are over 6k from a base that people on the base will not see tank rounds fired from that distance. I know this because I had people comm me directly and ask why I was able to blow stuff up on their field without being seen.

This is not an example of the furthest shot possible but only the one case I mentioned (with a math error).

There is one infamous case where I was shelling a base and keeping the hangars down when one of my squad members went to capture it. I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching. So the technique is not without its problems.

[perdue3]

Horrible idea.

[TDeacon]

No. Its obvious you are not the expert you think you are. Since you havent got the imagination or game know-how to figure this out and also insulted me twice... you can suffer.

Chalenge; the best way to prove your point is with a film.  Otherwise, your claim seems bit far-fetched. 
MH

[Tank-Ace]

There is one infamous case where I was shelling a base and keeping the hangars down when one of my squad members went to capture it. I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching. So the technique is not without its problems.

Soo...... you can see a gun pop up, while you're still too far to see a friendly unit moving even fully zoomed in.

Now, I might not have a fancy degree in engineering or anything, but I'm fairly certian that Aircraft or GV > AA gun.

Considering guns don't even show long-range dots like aircraft and sometimes GV's do, I still find this a bit questionable. I mean the whole "I was too far to see a friendly, but I was still close enough to see a gun" think really doesn't make much sense. Either theres something wrong with the game graphics, or you're BS'ing.

Chalenge; the best way to prove your point is with a film.  Otherwise, your claim seems bit far-fetched. 
MH

Even if we're too far to see the spotter, just a film of you spawning up, bringing the clip board up and showing us you are an estimated 15k from target, and firing rounds will be sufficient. Why? Because film viewer shows us your text buffer, so we will see if you're destroying targets.

[Chalenge]

Deacon it doesnt matter whether you believe me or not. People have witnessed this in the game and as I said already if more people knew how to do it then dweebs would be rolling maps like there was no tomorrow! Worse... there wouldnt be any air combat going on.

Tank-ace is being ignored for the most part but I will point out... friendlies can report the gun up and I know what the down times are on them. In the case I am talking about the base was surrounded precisely because I was keeping it dead allowing one of my squad members to get an m3 in (and killing myself too). Say what you will I will NOT tell you how it is done. BUT if you ever see objects on your field mysteriously exploding then you will know who is responsible.

[bustr]

Sometimes I think most wishes here are trolls to start fights.

Do you guys want player controlled artillery or not?

Do you have any ideas how to implement it in the game?

Do you have a better idea to giving a single player control over all aspects of aiming and spotting for a battery? As you notice all player controled functions in the game are designed around single players.

Do you even give a ratz hairy south bound part how it's implemented if Hitech includes it some day? The simplest thing I'm betting is to model it after the multigun batteries in the CV group and hope you can make nice with a Storch pilot or spawn campers for spotting feedback. I did that once to V85 with a 3 gun cruiser battery using land mode against the north spawn and a F4U spotter. He helped me clear the spawn of tanks and M3's holding them off until V85's hangers and ack came back up.

From that experience I'd say mobile artillery batteries will be effective in this game with a reliable spotting function for the player commanding the battery and enough guns in the battery to be usefull down range.

[Tank-Ace]

Deacon it doesnt matter whether you believe me or not. People have witnessed this in the game and as I said already if more people knew how to do it then dweebs would be rolling maps like there was no tomorrow! Worse... there wouldnt be any air combat going on.

then produce a minimum of 2 witnesses for us, at the very least.

Tank-ace is being ignored for the most part but I will point out... friendlies can report the gun up and I know what the down times are on them. In the case I am talking about the base was surrounded precisely because I was keeping it dead allowing one of my squad members to get an m3 in (and killing myself too).

I could see one of the guns had come up and I was trying to hit it when he passed close enough to my shot to kill me. It was so far out that I could not see him even zoomed all the way in and he could not see the round approaching.

Say what you will I will NOT tell you how it is done.

You sound like a little kid telling everyone about his invisible pet dinosaur, and then getting pissed off when nobody believes him because the dinosaur can't be felt, heard, smelled, etc by anyone but him either.

BUT if you ever see objects on your field mysteriously exploding then you will know who is responsible.

In 80% of the cases, the cause of the explosions turned out to be the tank that was shelling the base with long range direct fire from a hill, or using an improbably long LOS on the base from a possition of roughly equal elevation. The other 20% of the time turned out to be a lone incompetent CV gunner opening up on the field before an attack was ready or an LVTA4.

[Chalenge]

Tank-ace your hyperbole isnt going to help and your insistance that I prove what I say is just as ridiculous. You are the child here... not I.

Specifically talk to Biggamer who used the "C" word against me in either early or midwar. And you can ask Lyric or anyone else in my squad who have all gotten tired of my "disappearing" acts but nonetheless bring my supplies when I need them.

It wont help you figure out how it works.

NO, even though I at one time thought towed artillery was a good idea I do not anymore. I like AH as a flight sim but I can see how the little kiddies would love to turn it into Jeeps Run.

[TDeacon]

Sometimes I think most wishes here are trolls to start fights.

Do you guys want player controlled artillery or not?
<snip>

No, and I already indicated why in my first comment.  To repeat, if it is to be anywhere near historical, it will overpower the rest of the game. 

MH