P-51 options

[WING47]

There is only ONE plane in AH that has a longer range than the P51D.  In other words, the P51x needs no more attention.  Period.  Save maybe a reduction down to 3 ENY, just like the Spit16.   

      Ok the 51 was fine at 8 ENY considering we have planes like the LA7, which out performs it in every way in the AH world and most situations, so nerfing, and or lowering its ENY too keep people from flying it is stupid, perhaps you should try looking around and checking your tail before you post this cause you're tired of being cherry picked.

[titanic3]

      Ok the 51 was fine at 8 ENY considering we have planes like the LA7, which out performs it in every way in the AH world and most situations, so nerfing, and or lowering its ENY too keep people from flying it is stupid, perhaps you should try looking around and checking your tail before you post this cause you're tired of being cherry picked.

Besides it's speed, the ENY is there for the ords it carries. If it wasn't for it's speed and combination of ords, no one would use it. If you take away those two qualities, F4U1D, 47N, and P38L becomes the new "51D".

[Karnak]

      Ok the 51 was fine at 8 ENY considering we have planes like the LA7, which out performs it in every way in the AH world and most situations, so nerfing, and or lowering its ENY too keep people from flying it is stupid, perhaps you should try looking around and checking your tail before you post this cause you're tired of being cherry picked.

You're flat out wrong.  The P-51D is used more than the next two planes, the much whined about Spitfire Mk XVI and La-7, combined.  It alone is used more than all marks of Spitfire combined.  Its usage has done nothing but increase year after year.  It has the ENY of 5 for a reason.

[WING47]

     I would like to take Titanic's reply and thank him, as he is not telling me I'm flat out wrong. This is my opinion, if you don't like it, too bad. Besides I would like to know where you get these numbers. I see more spits than 51s, might be different for you but how would I know unless I'm in your shoes. 

[Lusche]

  Besides I would like to know where you get these numbers.

Ah stats pages.

Spits kills & deaths are in a steady decline for a long time now. In fact, where years ago you could find a small group of planes resonably close together at the top, the P-51D totally stands out today.

[4Prop]

the P51 never existed, its just our imagination

[Ruah]

the 1k bombs on fighters is a big reason medium bombers and proper attack aircraft are not used as much as they would otherwise.  Why take anything else if you can take a 51, dhog or a 47 with 2k bombs and 10 rockets!!

Do I use it, yes, it makes CVs especially potent, but it also breaks the game.

So more toys for the 51?  Sure, as long as it is not equivalent to 1k bombs and 10 rockets.

I am really surprised people think this is even debatable - the 1k ords + rockets setup is game breaking, and the historical rational, while secondary, is also weak. 

[Chalenge]

Breaks the game? Really? Or is it just another reason to cry on the BBS? When people land dozens of kills in the 262 no one complains that it breaks the game.

No... this is pony envy pure and simple!

Lusche points out that the P51 gets a lot of kills but it also sees a lot of use. Why? Because it is a symbol of WWII and air superiority. Despite how other planes like the F4U fly in the game they were never that good in real life. Even the P51 exceeds its capabilities because of the nerfing of physics. We all know its true. Hitech and company have done a wonderful job with AH of making it playable for people of any background. For that reason we dont have random failures and weaknesses like you would in real life (although Im not absolutely positive I dont think any of these planes could really keep their engines wide open all the time). But every side has the same possibility in choosing planes in the hangar. What I can load my plane with you can also load your plane with. The only difference is in actual range capabilities and here I think the P51 get slighted a lot. I am not under any illusions that it is alone there but I do know that it actually did run with larger fuel tanks and should have them.

As pointed out in the pages I posted the P51 actually flew with the RAF regularly with rockets and 1000 lb bombs. All arguments to the contrary should be ignored now that documentation has been posted.

And my wish should go forward. On the larger maps the extra fuel would be a big help.

[Guppy35]

Breaks the game? Really? Or is it just another reason to cry on the BBS? When people land dozens of kills in the 262 no one complains that it breaks the game.

No... this is pony envy pure and simple!

Lusche points out that the P51 gets a lot of kills but it also sees a lot of use. Why? Because it is a symbol of WWII and air superiority. Despite how other planes like the F4U fly in the game they were never that good in real life. Even the P51 exceeds its capabilities because of the nerfing of physics. We all know its true. Hitech and company have done a wonderful job with AH of making it playable for people of any background. For that reason we dont have random failures and weaknesses like you would in real life (although Im not absolutely positive I dont think any of these planes could really keep their engines wide open all the time). But every side has the same possibility in choosing planes in the hangar. What I can load my plane with you can also load your plane with. The only difference is in actual range capabilities and here I think the P51 get slighted a lot. I am not under any illusions that it is alone there but I do know that it actually did run with larger fuel tanks and should have them.

As pointed out in the pages I posted the P51 actually flew with the RAF regularly with rockets and 1000 lb bombs. All arguments to the contrary should be ignored now that documentation has been posted.

And my wish should go forward. On the larger maps the extra fuel would be a big help.

Can you point to a source showing an RAF 51 carrying both rockets and 1000 pounders at the same time?  I can't find anything to show me both at once.    The most recent book on the shelf is the massive "Southern Cross Mustangs" covering the RAAF and RNZAF Mustangs.  It covers armaments for those MTO birds and makes no reference to both together.   It showed me my first ever image of an RAF MTO Mustang with a Malcom hood, but no 1000 pounders and rockets together and that includes Korea.

[Chalenge]

I cant show you a picture of Hartmann shooting a plane down. Didnt happen.

Get it?   

[Guppy35]

Not asking for a picture, just a source 

[Butcher]

I have the wartime pilot notes and instructions for the Mustang III and Mustang IV from RAF as well as field manuals for the pilots, nothing mentions carrying both bombs and rockets.

They go into great detail of adding bomb racks, HVAR racks, reloading 50 cal machine guns, taking them out - everything shows either Bombs....or HVar rockets, both manuals DO not say both.

This Manual covers the: P51-D-5, -10, -15, -20, -25, P51-K,-1,-5,,10,-15 from the American Army
And British Model Mustang IV.

This is the manual a mechanic would use to repair/maintain and arm a P-51 Mustang, why does it have no reference to loading both bombs and rockets? Its either one OR the other.

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but Chalenge you showed no proof what so ever yet of your claim, as I pointed out the only photo's I can find are mustangs in korea with any load that consists of bombs AND rockets.

Pretty sure if I go hunt for korean war material I can probably drum up more photos and information, but I am sticking to strictly WW2 here.

[Guppy35]

Korean era Mustangs carried 500 pounders and 6 rockets regulary for ground attack.  That or napalm tanks and rockets.  No 1000 pounders and rockets however.

[earl1937]

Not asking for a picture, just a source  

Does this help with this thread?
The Second World War ended before the RAAF could employ the Mustang operationally, but it was used extensively by 77 Squadron RAAF in a ground-attack role in the early months of the Korean War. After serving with 15 RAAF squadrons - 3, 4, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 75, 76, 77, 78, 82, 84, 86, and 450 - the last Australian Mustangs were retired in June 1960.
 
Specifications:
 Mustang P-51 D (Mk IV)
Type:  
Single-engine fighter aircraft
 Entered service:  
 October 1943
 Crew:  
 1
 Wing span:  
 11.28 m
 Length:  
 9.83 m
 Weight (unladen):  
 3,463 kg
 Ceiling:  
12,770 m
 Endurance:  
 Maximum range 2,655 km
 Speed:  
 703 km/h
 Armament:  
 6 x .50-in machine-guns
 907 kg of bombs or 6 x 12.7-mm rockets
Source: Austrilian Air force records. The P-51K was used extentisively during early Korean war by both USAF, British and South Korean Air Force. Standard ground attack load was 2 500lbers and 6 rockets. While the stats say 907kg of bombs OR 6 x 12.7 rockets, was told by old heads that drop tank attachments were modified to accept 2 500 lber's so as to be more effective against tanks and trains, along with the 12.7mm rockets.

[Butcher]

Korean era Mustangs carried 500 pounders and 6 rockets regulary for ground attack.  That or napalm tanks and rockets.  No 1000 pounders and rockets however.

I'm seeing dozens of mustangs with 500lbs and rockets in the Korean war, No 1,000lbs either - I wonder why.